Heated seats with remote start?

[iammacey]

I've participated in consumer studies, and a few months after buying my JT - I completed surveys for Jeep. They study this - it's not like the armchair engineers here believe.
I was called about my comments on the seats in the Gladiator and told them what I thought. Get enough of those and if the results say something sucks - it gets changed. Hell, even Ford watches what people talk about in Jeep vehicles.
I've been in studies for candy, Jeeps, and other products. I used to live blocks away from a company that did studies for big companies.
They take a lot into account in these things. Just because a person or 10 doesn't like something doesn't mean it's random or some craps shoot. There will always be outliers - they have to go with the largest group.
Seriously, of all of the thousands of Gladiator owners in the world, how many think it should be 60 because that's what THEY want? (how many of those thousands drive no doors below 60 degrees?)
Someone will always be annoyed and feel left out.

So funny how people "Guess" when they don't work for any car maker and assume it's just a craps shoot.

I can't imagine any decisions are made based on guessing. Manufacturers do consumer studies on everything. Focus groups to test, provide feedback, evaluate, and then go with consensus. Then they continue to solicit feedback, as you say, to modify and adapt.

It may feel like they are throwing darts, but they aren't.

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[Zswickliffe]

I've participated in consumer studies, and a few months after buying my JT - I completed surveys for Jeep. They study this - it's not like the armchair engineers here believe.
I was called about my comments on the seats in the Gladiator and told them what I thought. Get enough of those and if the results say something sucks - it gets changed. Hell, even Ford watches what people talk about in Jeep vehicles.
I've been in studies for candy, Jeeps, and other products. I used to live blocks away from a company that did studies for big companies.
They take a lot into account in these things. Just because a person or 10 doesn't like something doesn't mean it's random or some craps shoot. There will always be outliers - they have to go with the largest group.
Seriously, of all of the thousands of Gladiator owners in the world, how many think it should be 60 because that's what THEY want? (how many of those thousands drive no doors below 60 degrees?)
Someone will always be annoyed and feel left out.

So funny how people "Guess" when they don't work for any car maker and assume it's just a craps shoot.

No doubt they study it (I'm an automotive engineer BTW). I watch it happen every day.

But it's also important to remember what it's like to get a car full of people to agree on what's for dinner. Same situation happens. You're going to have one that's angry, one that's stoked and the others are fine with the end result.

I've also seen a lot of made up graphs and PowerPoints developed solely to push one person's preference.

Just like with everything there's a mix.

 

[Zswickliffe]

It may feel like they are throwing darts, but they aren't.

You'd probably be surprised hah. Sure human factors and ergonomics has a lot of "rule of thumb" things but there are also a lot of things that were relatively arbitrarily decided because there was no original rule of thumb, then it sort of sticks.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Should be 40 degrees or cooler for all Jeep, Dodge, and Ram.

80 degrees or warmer for the cooled seats.

40 degrees on my wife's WK2 - each of them as far as I recall.
I have Raynaud's bad and if anyone is going to be sensitive to a cold steering wheel, I'd expect it to be such people. Seats 40 and above warm up pretty quickly once you sit in them and stay put. You can always push a button once in the vehicle but then look at the complaints about that for another feature, too LOL

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I can't imagine any decisions are made based on guessing. Manufacturers do consumer studies on everything. Focus groups to test, provide feedback, evaluate, and then go with consensus. Then they continue to solicit feedback, as you say, to modify and adapt.

It may feel like they are throwing darts, but they aren't.

The study groups I participated in the outfit was extremely careful to not have anything in the room, say anything, have any colors or odors, etc. that might sway moods. They also asked us questions and a couple of people were dismissed in one case because they have pre-conceived notions about certain products.
There were no leading questions (like law enforcement uses on TV to get certain answers) or that sort of thing. IF a company makes changes based on bad data, they LOSE.

 

[iammacey]

You'd probably be surprised hah. Sure human factors and ergonomics has a lot of "rule of thumb" things but there are also a lot of things that were relatively arbitrarily decided because there was no original rule of thumb, then it sort of sticks.

Example? And I'm not talking about Elon Musk Tesla quirks and Easter Egg type things like Space Balls or 007 mode. Though even these things are done with intention behind them.

When I was a kid, I remember the headlight switch for vehicles was in the floorboard. You clicked it with your left foot to toggle between high beams and low beams. Someone, somewhere, was the first person to move this to a stalk on the steering column. Everyone has followed. But the idea this was done at random, without reason, and without feedback is not likely.

Take the tactile knobs in the JT for controlling the radio and HVAC. These are chunky for a reason. They are designed to be used with gloves on. Even if there isn't a consumer panel, there is an engineering and/or design reason for the choices. It may not prove out to be right, but it wasn't done at random.

 

[Trickster]

I honestly can’t believe this is an issue.
How thin is your blood that you need to have heated seats and steering wheel at 60 degrees?
Get in push the button 30 seconds later…..ahhh…
But I am a crazy Canuck and 60 is summer temps.
I just hope this rig works a -40.?

 

[Zswickliffe]

Example? And I'm not talking about Elon Musk Tesla quirks and Easter Egg type things like Space Balls or 007 mode. Though even these things are done with intention behind them.

When I was a kid, I remember the headlight switch for vehicles was in the floorboard. You clicked it with your left foot to toggle between high beams and low beams. Someone, somewhere, was the first person to move this to a stalk on the steering column. Everyone has followed. But the idea this was done at random, without reason, and without feedback is not likely.

Take the tactile knobs in the JT for controlling the radio and HVAC. These are chunky for a reason. They are designed to be used with gloves on. Even if there isn't a consumer panel, there is an engineering and/or design reason for the choices. It may not prove out to be right, but it wasn't done at random.

I can't get too in-depth for... reasons... but a lot of the limits for new technologies is a good example. Minimum speed for ICC? Maximum speed? Blind spot monitoring? All of that was sort of picked by what sounded good at the time, before the systems or any regulations existed. Every OEM was different and every implementation was unique. Now they're a lot more similar, starting to converge.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I honestly can’t believe this is an issue.
How thin is your blood that you need to have heated seats and steering wheel at 60 degrees?
Get in push the button 30 seconds later…..ahhh…
But I am a crazy Canuck and 60 is summer temps.
I just hope this rig works a -40.?

If you had Raynaud's you'd know for sure. When your fingers go numb and tingle then hurt........... but pushing a button resolves the issue.
I use the heated seats for my bad back issues (decades of lifting heads, engine blocks, leaning over fenders, etc.) so I know how to quickly get the heat to the seats.

It's also a matter of acclimation - when I farmed we had about 2 weeks of -20 (F) highs. I had hogs to take care of, keep barn clean, keep water running, move snow, etc. I recall when the daytime temp hit 0 one day I got hot and had to shed a layer of clothing. Now those temps would kill me.
If the temps change gradually and stay, the body adapts. If the temps you are used to are 70+ then suddenly you are thrust into 50 degrees - it matters. We experienced similar when coming back from our trip. We were used to hot temps and desert air - then we landed in Chicago and it was 55 and we froze.

 

[iammacey]

I can't get too in-depth for... reasons... but a lot of the limits for new technologies is a good example. Minimum speed for ICC? Maximum speed? Blind spot monitoring? All of that was sort of picked by what sounded good at the time, before the systems or any regulations existed. Every OEM was different and every implementation was unique. Now they're a lot more similar, starting to converge.

Understood on... Reasons.

Let's take Blind Spot Monitoring. Great example because I had this in our Macan and now the Gladiator. The distance/spacing of the vehicle in the Blind Spot to trigger the visual alert is very different between the two vehicles. Porsche alerted with a vehicle much further back. If you had room to merge, no indicator. The Jeep doesn't light up until a vehicle is literally alongside you.

My point is, neither company set this distance arbitrarily. I much preferred the Porsche approach, but I also understand the logic in the approach Jeep has taken. And even if the decision was made by one engineer, in a room, by themselves, they still had a logic for making that decision that could be explained. They didn't write 5 numbers on paper, drop them in a hat, and randomly pick. Even though it may seem like that's exactly what they did.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Understood on... Reasons.

Let's take Blind Spot Monitoring. Great example because I had this in our Macan and now the Gladiator. The distance/spacing of the vehicle in the Blind Spot to trigger the visual alert is very different between the two vehicles. Porsche alerted with a vehicle much further back. If you had room to merge, no indicator. The Jeep doesn't light up until a vehicle is literally alongside you.

My point is, neither company set this distance arbitrarily. I much preferred the Porsche approach, but I also understand the logic in the approach Jeep has taken. And even if the decision was made by one engineer, in a room, by themselves, they still had a logic for making that decision that could be explained. They didn't write 5 numbers on paper, drop them in a hat, and randomly pick. Even though it may seem like that's exactly what they did.

Sounds like MAYBE yours behaves differently than mine. Granted, it's close, but it also appears to depend on the difference in speed between my vehicle and the other. Mine also yells at me if I hit the signal to change lanes and there's a car a full length back. (although moving over would be RUDE)

 

[Zswickliffe]

Understood on... Reasons.

Let's take Blind Spot Monitoring. Great example because I had this in our Macan and now the Gladiator. The distance/spacing of the vehicle in the Blind Spot to trigger the visual alert is very different between the two vehicles. Porsche alerted with a vehicle much further back. If you had room to merge, no indicator. The Jeep doesn't light up until a vehicle is literally alongside you.

My point is, neither company set this distance arbitrarily. I much preferred the Porsche approach, but I also understand the logic in the approach Jeep has taken. And even if the decision was made by one engineer, in a room, by themselves, they still had a logic for making that decision that could be explained. They didn't write 5 numbers on paper, drop them in a hat, and randomly pick. Even though it may seem like that's exactly what they did.

Right, and I'm telling you it's not that black and white.

The level of "fact and data" required to make those decisions is different for every decision.

For some people subjective evaluation is enough. For others benchmark + subjective evaluation is required. And for others human factors study + government safety requirement + media voice + customer complaint + etc.

Subjective evaluation, in my opinion, is akin to throwing darts. And it happens VERY frequently.

 

[iammacey]

Subjective evaluation, in my opinion, is akin to throwing darts. And it happens VERY frequently.

Good summary. Other than the above, I completely agree. Subjective evaluation is not equal to throwing darts in my opinion. Subjective yes, but still a decision made by someone through their lense and for their reasons.

I do agree with you as we have walked through this discussion and it's more semantics than anything. I completely understand the perspective that it's throwing darts.

 

[Zswickliffe]

Good summary. Other than the above, I completely agree. Subjective evaluation is not equal to throwing darts in my opinion. Subjective yes, but still a decision made by someone through their lense and for their reasons.

I do agree with you as we have walked through this discussion and it's more semantics than anything. I completely understand the perspective that it's throwing darts.

Yeah totally. It just depends on how much you trust someone's opinion basically. I'm more cynical since I live it every day.

 

[Trickster]

Understood on... Reasons.

Let's take Blind Spot Monitoring. Great example because I had this in our Macan and now the Gladiator. The distance/spacing of the vehicle in the Blind Spot to trigger the visual alert is very different between the two vehicles. Porsche alerted with a vehicle much further back. If you had room to merge, no indicator. The Jeep doesn't light up until a vehicle is literally alongside you.

My point is, neither company set this distance arbitrarily. I much preferred the Porsche approach, but I also understand the logic in the approach Jeep has taken. And even if the decision was made by one engineer, in a room, by themselves, they still had a logic for making that decision that could be explained. They didn't write 5 numbers on paper, drop them in a hat, and randomly pick. Even though it may seem like that's exactly what they did.

Two totally different animals.
Comparing the shapes may be a reason for the differences.
Looking at the location of the sensors ability to their thing in a box versus a rounded object may provide the answer. I know my Volvos
reaction time/sensitivity is different than the JT.

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