Help deciphering Willys springs

[ShadowsPapa]

If your happy with what you got out of it that's what counts. For me getting between 0 and 1 inch is negligible In saying what I have here is to advise anyone going through the effort of a spring change and getting 0 to 1 inch lift the results may be disappointing. With that said a lot of people are snapping up Rubicon wheel tire and spring take offs.

It's been hashed to death that Rubicon does sit differently and not just the fenders.
That was what was said waaay back, but it's been shown on many dozens of swaps that DEPENDING ON THE SPRING, Rubicon springs generally give 3/4 to 1" lift. (I also measured several JTs in a dealer lot - frame to ground, etc. and took into account tire sizes)

People already know what to expect and not expect. I've explained many times that there are at least THREE Rubicon springs. So springs from a light Rubicon put under a fully loaded anything else will get little lift not because of spring height but because of wire size, etc.
I have the lighter of the Rubicon springs and got my nearly 1" lift - and I have a fully loaded Overland. I've seen cases posted here where one person got a bit over 1".
NO ONE IS EXPECTING 1" or more. And most are clever enough to know what their truck weighs and what their options on their truck compared to others so I doubt many are going into it blindly.

My bet having watched this for well over a year now is that most people are getting 3/4" to 1" and few are getting 0 difference (unless they are swapping on a Mojave and I'd not recommend that)

I've laid the springs out, compared lengths, wire sizes, coil numbers, etc. and saw a definite difference. I have also seen interesting differences among Rubicon springs, such as a lower number spring have more coils............

I can't remember. Did you have a max tow or no?

I have a loaded Overland. I put "Rubicon springs" under the front and max tow springs under the back. I got a lift on the front of all but 1", the back stayed about the same, maybe 1/8" lower but then it's nearly impossible to get that accurate so I'll call the rear max tow spring swap a wash in height.
When I put the steel bumper, skid plate and winch up front, it dropped 1/2".
That means even with that 150 or so pounds of extra weight up there those Rubicon springs still gave me 1/2".
I wanted just a little bit more so I put 3/4" spacers front and rear. If not for the winch/bumper/skid plate dropping it .5" I'd have been quite happy with just the spring swap.

Sponsored

 

[mdyucca]

It's been hashed to death that Rubicon does sit differently and not just the fenders.
That was what was said waaay back, but it's been shown on many dozens of swaps that DEPENDING ON THE SPRING, Rubicon springs generally give 3/4 to 1" lift. (I also measured several JTs in a dealer lot - frame to ground, etc. and took into account tire sizes)

People already know what to expect and not expect. I've explained many times that there are at least THREE Rubicon springs. So springs from a light Rubicon put under a fully loaded anything else will get little lift not because of spring height but because of wire size, etc.
I have the lighter of the Rubicon springs and got my nearly 1" lift - and I have a fully loaded Overland. I've seen cases posted here where one person got a bit over 1".
NO ONE IS EXPECTING 1" or more. And most are clever enough to know what their truck weighs and what their options on their truck compared to others so I doubt many are going into it blindly.

My bet having watched this for well over a year now is that most people are getting 3/4" to 1" and few are getting 0 difference (unless they are swapping on a Mojave and I'd not recommend that)

I've laid the springs out, compared lengths, wire sizes, coil numbers, etc. and saw a definite difference. I have also seen interesting differences among Rubicon springs, such as a lower number spring have more coils............




I have a loaded Overland. I put "Rubicon springs" under the front and max tow springs under the back. I got a lift on the front of all but 1", the back stayed about the same, maybe 1/8" lower but then it's nearly impossible to get that accurate so I'll call the rear max tow spring swap a wash in height.
When I put the steel bumper, skid plate and winch up front, it dropped 1/2".
That means even with that 150 or so pounds of extra weight up there those Rubicon springs still gave me 1/2".
I wanted just a little bit more so I put 3/4" spacers front and rear. If not for the winch/bumper/skid plate dropping it .5" I'd have been quite happy with just the spring swap.

The thing with each of us is that we are different and looking for different things for different reasons. I just don't like the look of Gladiator's looking like stink bugs with the rear appearing to be 3 inches higher in the rear then the front. When I was a kid I had a few cars with the rear end all jacked up. I guess I have just gotton over that look.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The thing with each of us is that we are different and looking for different things for different reasons. I just don't like the look of Gladiator's looking like stink bugs with the rear appearing to be 3 inches higher in the rear then the front. When I was a kid I had a few cars with the rear end all jacked up. I guess I have just gotton over that look.

It's a TRUCK. If you use it like a truck, like I do, you'll be thankful for some rake. Maybe not as much as a STOCK Overland, but I left some of the rake in. Put 1,060 pounds of stone in the back it sits about level. 1800 pounds in the back it sits level, MAYBE a tad down in back, but pretty level.
I hate the look of a TRUCK with a saggy butt.

If you don't like the rake, the easiest and best solution is a LEVELING kit, not springs. Then you are absolutely certain of exactly how much lift you are giving the front - no guess work at all, not a bit.
3/4" kit lifts it 3/4", not half, not 1, but 3/4". A 1.5" kit will raise it exactly 1.5" not a bit more or less.

This is my truck with 1060 pounds of retaining wall caps in the back over the axle. With no rake I'd have been bird watching on the way home. To me, it's a truck first, then a Jeep. Well, that depends, tomorrow it will be a Jeep first, maybe a truck.......

 

[mdyucca]

It's a TRUCK. If you use it like a truck, like I do, you'll be thankful for some rake. Maybe not as much as a STOCK Overland, but I left some of the rake in. Put 1,060 pounds of stone in the back it sits about level. 1800 pounds in the back it sits level, MAYBE a tad down in back, but pretty level.
I hate the look of a TRUCK with a saggy butt.

If you don't like the rake, the easiest and best solution is a LEVELING kit, not springs. Then you are absolutely certain of exactly how much lift you are giving the front - no guess work at all, not a bit.
3/4" kit lifts it 3/4", not half, not 1, but 3/4". A 1.5" kit will raise it exactly 1.5" not a bit more or less.

This is my truck with 1060 pounds of retaining wall caps in the back over the axle. With no rake I'd have been bird watching on the way home. To me, it's a truck first, then a Jeep. Well, that depends, tomorrow it will be a Jeep first, maybe a truck.......

Still looks good even with 1600lbs in it!

 

[WXman]

It's a TRUCK. If you use it like a truck, like I do, you'll be thankful for some rake. Maybe not as much as a STOCK Overland, but I left some of the rake in. Put 1,060 pounds of stone in the back it sits about level. 1800 pounds in the back it sits level, MAYBE a tad down in back, but pretty level.
I hate the look of a TRUCK with a saggy butt.

If you don't like the rake, the easiest and best solution is a LEVELING kit, not springs. Then you are absolutely certain of exactly how much lift you are giving the front - no guess work at all, not a bit.
3/4" kit lifts it 3/4", not half, not 1, but 3/4". A 1.5" kit will raise it exactly 1.5" not a bit more or less.

This is my truck with 1060 pounds of retaining wall caps in the back over the axle. With no rake I'd have been bird watching on the way home. To me, it's a truck first, then a Jeep. Well, that depends, tomorrow it will be a Jeep first, maybe a truck.......

What did you do to the rear suspension to make it stay level with 1,800 lbs. in the bed?

My Max Tow would squat like a stripper at a pole if I put 1,800 lbs. in it. I put 1,300 lbs. in it one day to shoot a video for YouTube, which was MAXED OUT with me in the driver seat, and the bump stops were on the perches it squatted so bad. And that's with the springs that are allegedly the highest spring rate you can get from the factory.

Heck, today I have a Ram 1500 with a 1,645 lb. payload rating AND Timbren SES helper springs rated for 8,000 lbs. and my truck will still not sit level if I put 1,800 lbs. in it.

You must be running air bags.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

What did you do to the rear suspension to make it stay level with 1,800 lbs. in the bed?

My Max Tow would squat like a stripper at a pole if I put 1,800 lbs. in it. I put 1,300 lbs. in it one day to shoot a video for YouTube, which was MAXED OUT with me in the driver seat, and the bump stops were on the perches it squatted so bad. And that's with the springs that are allegedly the highest spring rate you can get from the factory.

Heck, today I have a Ram 1500 with a 1,645 lb. payload rating AND Timbren SES helper springs rated for 8,000 lbs. and my truck will still not sit level if I put 1,800 lbs. in it.

You must be running air bags.

No air bags. It's got max tow springs and Daystar 3/4" spacers, that's it.
The picture is with 20 caps each weighing 53 pounds according to the specs (and what the guy lifting them out figured as well) for a total of 1060 pounds that trip. They were well distributed, 100 more pounds ahead of the axle than behind it.

The bigger load was also spread in the box and I tried to keep more ahead of the axle than behind but they were mostly spread through the box.
I counted the blocks 3 times and each time came up with 150 blocks.
The specs say they weight 12 pounds each. Carrying them, I'd guess that's pretty close. They are at least 10-11 pounds, but likely 12 because two of them is similar to carrying 25 pounds of cat food.
Even if they were only 11 pounds, that's about 1600 pounds, at 10 pounds, that's 1500 pounds.

This one taken right after I parked the truck in my yard with the 20 caps, 53 pounds each. So this is sitting with 1,000 pounds. The other pic below this shows how I had them stacked and you can count the 20 in that pic - 8 of the caps (two stacks of 4 each) are ahead of the axle, so 424 pounds was in front of the axle.
6 of them (2 stacks of 3) were right over the axle (318 pounds)
Maybe that's the trick - how they were loaded.

 

[21hydrowillys]

Is it me or did this entire post go sideways? I have willys gladiator and want to know if the rubicon springs will fit it. No one is comparing willys springs yet. Everyone is lifting a overland or a max tow. Willys has 32” mud terrain tires on it from the factory which are bigger than overland or sport tires. Can some one post measurements before and after there lift from ground to whatever point so I can compare to how mine is sitting stock? I have a line of rubicon shocks and springs but don’t want to waste money or time if it’s going to be a waste.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Is it me or did this entire post go sideways? I have willys gladiator and want to know if the rubicon springs will fit it. No one is comparing willys springs yet. Everyone is lifting a overland or a max tow. Willys has 32” mud terrain tires on it from the factory which are bigger than overland or sport tires. Can some one post measurements before and after there lift from ground to whatever point so I can compare to how mine is sitting stock? I have a line of rubicon shocks and springs but don’t want to waste money or time if it’s going to be a waste.

Bigger than Overland? What's the REAL diameter of the tires on the Willys version?
The stock OVerland tires are 32.2", the stock Rubicon A/T tires are 32.7"
How is a 32" tire larger than tires I was running on a stock height truck.
The 33" Rubicon MT OR AT tires (which are really 32.7 or 32.8 depending on what site you ask) fit an Overland UNlifted perfectly.

So I'm confused (like THAT'S new LOL) - how are your tires bigger than what comes stock on Overland if they are 32" tires? My stock tires were 32.2" diameter.

 

[21hydrowillys]

I stand corrected. I thought they came out at a 31.5”. Now time to measure my truck stock and find some other threads on measurements. I’m pretty certain then the rubicon springs will lift the willys up a little bit.

Sponsored