My Custom JL Rubicon Overland Camper Build - Refuge II Camper

[Mules]

Absolutely, we spent a ton of time thinking about the pros and cons of the Gladiator for this build.

Checkout the video above where I directly compare them.. it turns out the Gladiator is not the perfect solution...

-Dan

Careful Dan…. This is the Gladiator Forum not the Wrangler or the Overlanding Forum.?.

There’s a reason we bought a pickup.

Love your build by the way, but it can’t do this. Long wheel base isn’t great for clearance but it is great for towing. I finally got a Jeep that can pull my toys!

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[Dan Grec]

Careful Dan…. This is the Gladiator Forum not the Wrangler or the Overlanding Forum.?.

There’s a reason we bought a pickup.

Love your build by the way, but it can’t do this. I finally got a Jeep that can pull my toys!

You're absolutely right that it can't do that.
And I have no need for it to do that, so buying a vehicle that can makes no sense.

Remember, there is no such thing as "perfect", because everyone's needs are different.
Buy and build the vehicle that is right for you and your needs and where you want to go on the planet.

-Dan

 

[chorky]

Absolutely.

The reasoning for "Why not a Gladiator" is involved, and I made a whole video about it here:



Yes, just using glue and no bolts is very common for composites, it's the standard way and is much stronger and lighter.

What we bolted on weighs less than what we took off.. so the Jeep currently weighs less than when it rolled out of the factory stock. We have a good amount of payload to play with.

The cost is actually not very high in materials, but the labor is HUGE. If we even paid ourselves $50/hour it's not really workable. If it goes into production there will be changes made to make it mass producible.

-Dan

Apparently I just scrolled right past that video ha. Thanks for re-posting. I find your comparison interesting.... I see for sure how the length of the Gladiator can be a negative, but it really depends on the purpose of a vehicle. For myself anyway, I have not been in any position yet where the belly of the Gladiator scraped, or the extra length was a major negative. I live in an area with very tight roads and steep catastrophic drop-offs, and haven't yet been in a spot that I couldn't turn around. I dont think the length, for me, will ever really happen for a true 'overloading' or weekend camping adventure vehicle. For sure in places like the Rubicon but like you said it all depends on individual uses. I would be curious to hear more about what kind of trails you realistically plan on taking this new Wrangler. Its a bit of a conundrum trying to decide between the two because they both have pro's and con's.

I wanted to point out something in your video that I think needs some revisiting though. When discussing the other guy (forget his name) who put a box on the end of the Gladiator, you mentioned that not working for you because it was so short. But then the example given of why the Wrangler is so much better is WAY more work and not even remotely the same type of build. Because you had to physically cut the hardtop and seal it, rewire all sorts of things, figure a way to relocate some electronics, etc... The same thing could easily be done with the Gladiator and in turn have even a larger rear box length space. I just feel the need to point this out because this is not at all an apple to apple comparison and does the Gladiator injustice in that regard. I mean, with two totally different build styles, it's not even a valid comparison - more of a 'what do I want' discussion. Not saying the Gladiator is the end all be all, but saying the box on the Wrangler is longer than what you can put on the Gladiator is not at all true considering all the modifications you make to the Wrangler anyway. Given the exact same modifications done to the Gladiator, it would be larger than anything you could do to the Wrangler (at the cost of breaker and departure angles). Same as with the discussion of the back seat on the Gladiator compared to the wrangler. I am confused why this is even a discussion point because in the Wrangler you totally cut off the rear seats anyway - so if you did the same to the Gladiator the Gladiator would clearly have more room. So another apple to orange comparison that I think should be revisited and discussed more in a 'why I dont want a box' on the gladiator. I mean at this point comparing the two vehicles is not really even valid IMO because the build ideas between the two are completely different. Now the discussion about frame flex being a potential problem is a great consideration - I would be curious to know what that flex really is and was thinking about that when I hard mounted my RTT to the canopy of my Gladiator, as doing so only gives me 0.5" of clearance between the RTT and hardtop. I think these boxed frames are not designed to flex - the old C-channel frames in big trucks are, but to everything I know boxed in frames are designed to be rigid. That doesn't mean there is no flex there, but I dont think flex is designed into the frame. It would be curious to me to see if the body mount bushings, if added to the rear, would provide sufficient flex amounts to prevent a box on the gladiator from twisting and breaking something - for sure a consideration and I think in your case that is the true key to why the Wrangler is better for you because if that caused problems on the Gladiator, it would be a major pain to resolve.

In either case, looking forward to what you do with the inside of that box.

 

[Dan Grec]

I wanted to point out something in your video that I think needs some revisiting though. When discussing the other guy (forget his name) who put a box on the end of the Gladiator, you mentioned that not working for you because it was so short. But then the example given of why the Wrangler is so much better is WAY more work and not even remotely the same type of build. Because you had to physically cut the hardtop and seal it, rewire all sorts of things, figure a way to relocate some electronics, etc... The same thing could easily be done with the Gladiator and in turn have even a larger rear box length space. I just feel the need to point this out because this is not at all an apple to apple comparison and does the Gladiator injustice in that regard. I mean, with two totally different build styles, it's not even a valid comparison - more of a 'what do I want' discussion. Not saying the Gladiator is the end all be all, but saying the box on the Wrangler is longer than what you can put on the Gladiator is not at all true considering all the modifications you make to the Wrangler anyway. Given the exact same modifications done to the Gladiator, it would be larger than anything you could do to the Wrangler (at the cost of breaker and departure angles). Same as with the discussion of the back seat on the Gladiator compared to the wrangler. I am confused why this is even a discussion point because in the Wrangler you totally cut off the rear seats anyway - so if you did the same to the Gladiator the Gladiator would clearly have more room. So another apple to orange comparison that I think should be revisited and discussed more in a 'why I dont want a box' on the gladiator. I mean at this point comparing the two vehicles is not really even valid IMO because the build ideas between the two are completely different. Now the discussion about frame flex being a potential problem is a great consideration - I would be curious to know what that flex really is and was thinking about that when I hard mounted my RTT to the canopy of my Gladiator, as doing so only gives me 0.5" of clearance between the RTT and hardtop. I think these boxed frames are not designed to flex - the old C-channel frames in big trucks are, but to everything I know boxed in frames are designed to be rigid. That doesn't mean there is no flex there, but I dont think flex is designed into the frame. It would be curious to me to see if the body mount bushings, if added to the rear, would provide sufficient flex amounts to prevent a box on the gladiator from twisting and breaking something - for sure a consideration and I think in your case that is the true key to why the Wrangler is better for you because if that caused problems on the Gladiator, it would be a major pain to resolve.

In either case, looking forward to what you do with the inside of that box.

For sure I think it *could* be done with a Gladiator, but as I said, there are two major reasons why we didn't got that route:

1. The whole frame flex and "will it tear itself in half" thing. This project is already BIG and expensive and has quite a few risks, and we decided to draw the line and say enough is enough. We were not willing to take on that extra risk.
Someone else may be willing to, and I look forward to the day. That someone is not me.

2. Michael comes from the Unimog, and the LMTV and other vehicles like that.
He knows what a big camper is all about living in them full time up to Alaska and back.
He does not want a big camper again.
He wants a camper that is "big enough" but at some point enough is enough and making it bigger does not make it better.

Where is that line? is the wrangler box big enough, or would an extra foot or two that the Gladiator gives make a big difference?

There is only one way to find out, and that's what we're doing.

Of course, as your said, everyone needs to make up their own mind based on their own needs and what they're doing with a vehicle and where they are taking it.
For us, this is what we want. Not bigger, more expensive, more risk and more complicated to design and build while also being heavier and having worse breaker and departure angles.

-Dan

 

[Mules]

I was extremely worried about bed flex when I designed my camper. I did my research and flexed my truck as much as I could, but it never exceeded 3/8" twist. My camper flexes a tiny bit along the rubber door seals and the freedom top, but only in extreme situations. My rubber seals are more than capable of handling this tiny bit of twist. Remember the Gladiator only has 19" longer wheel base than the Wrangler, so the Wranglers frame twists almost the same amount.

I've driven my Gladiator Camper for a year now with more than 10,000 miles in all kinds of terrain, with no problems. Mostly around town, but still with a fair bit of 4 wheeling.

I get the bed twist question every few weeks. The bottom line is that the Gladiator and Wranglers are built on a "Boxed Frame", instead of a C-Channel frame.

Boxed Frames are extremely rigid.

Watch this video about the Ram Truck with a Boxed Frame and the Ford Truck with the Channel Frame. You'll understand why I'm no longer worried about flex.

 

[Dan Grec]

I was extremely worried about bed flex when I designed my camper. I did my research and flexed my truck as much as I could, but it never exceeded 3/8" twist. My camper flexes a tiny bit along the rubber door seals and the freedom top, but only in extreme situations. My rubber seals are more than capable of handling this tiny bit of twist. Remember the Gladiator only has 19" longer wheel base than the Wrangler, so the Wranglers frame twists almost the same amount.

I've driven my Gladiator Camper for a year now with more than 10,000 miles in all kinds of terrain, with no problems. Mostly around town, but still with a fair bit of 4 wheeling.

I get the bed twist question every few weeks. The bottom line is that the Gladiator and Wranglers are built on a "Boxed Frame", instead of a C-Channel frame.

Boxed Frames are extremely rigid.

Watch this video about the Ram Truck with a Boxed Frame and the Ford Truck with the Channel Frame. You'll understand why I'm no longer worried about flex.

The flex that yours has and allows for is a totally different beast than if we cut off the back of the Gladiator behind the front doors and permanently bonded on a camper like we have done in the Wrangler.

It allows for exactly no flex or twist, and any could tear it in half.

That is not a beast we wanted to tackle, so we didn't.

-Dan

 

[fourfa]

I suspect a Gladiator box build in the style of Dan's and Michael's would do as Mules has done (leave the cab alone, remove the hard/soft top), then interface to the roll cage, with a flex seal mate to the top and back of the rear doors and the back edge of the cab. Heck, maybe just mount the box to the frame on isolators with a little flex, then really clamp on to the roll cage tightly.

I'm really enjoying the new build series so far and stoked to see what comes next (I'm still in the dark on the big destination for this one). In an alternate future world, I might have ended up with a boxed JL like this instead of my JT + Alu-Cab. I'd love the shorter wheelbase, the weight-efficient volume, the pass-thru between seats and camper, and so on.

 

[chorky]

Did you ever consider building one yourself

The flex that yours has and allows for is a totally different beast than if we cut off the back of the Gladiator behind the front doors and permanently bonded on a camper like we have done in the Wrangler.

It allows for exactly no flex or twist, and any could tear it in half.

That is not a beast we wanted to tackle, so we didn't.

-Dan

Yeah good point you are permanently bonding the components together - so like a van, all one piece. But it makes me wonder how vans deal with that situation. Maybe their body mounts have more play? Or what about GEV, the original 'turtle', or even earth roamer for that matter. They must have a 3 point subframe, or spring mounts of some sort.

Is the Wrangler body/top to box bond going to use the same adhesive as that glue compound that bonded the honeycomb floor to the steel frame? Or will that be something different? It's a pretty tight clearance there that has to be near perfect - the use of the laser level was a real slick method, but I'm curious about that bond because the sheetmetal is fairly thin there.

 

[Dan Grec]

Hi Everyone,

The build continues!

In this update we make a custom moulded fibreglass part to join the Jeep forward cab to the camper box, bond in the forward floor, finish off wiring and add a raised air intake with dust pre-filter.

It's really coming along!



The build on the JL Camper continues, this time we modify a Rhino Rack Pioneer Platform and make a custom mount for it that goes directly into the roll bar through the freedom panels.
I also install a new front bumper, LED Light bar, driving lights and a winch.

We're getting there!



Let me know if you have any questions, happy to answer,

-Dan

 

[Dan Grec]

Hi All,

The Roof of the camper is 6 feet wide and 7.5 feet long, and on this episode @wabi_sabi_overland teaches me a ton more about working with composites as we custom make a roof to meet our needs - as light as possible while also being rigid and have a really good R insulation value.

We need to join to gather two honeycomb core composite panels, make and attach an aluminum outer trim piece, install and wire up all the marker lights and install latches and bumpers to keep the roof closed and in position.

We also tackle the fuel filler, dealing with the main fill neck, the DEF filler, the diesel tank breather line and a big relay. There's a lot of stuff we need to pack into a tight space back there.

Join us as the build of the Dream Overland Camper continues!



-Dan

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