New bronco revealed

[hjdca]

This is an outdated mentality from an outdated technology. Just a few years ago this was 100% correct but with the technology and metallurgy of 2020 it is no longer true. While rock crawling the most important suspension feature is not up travel but droop. The topside tire will remain in contact with the ground because it is stuffed but the bottom side must droop to remain in contact with the surface. This is difficult to overcome with yesterday's suspension technology because CV joint technology would not accommodate the extreme angles, but now it can. Like I said earlier if you can take and independently suspended Ultra 4 car in win KOH the technology has arrived and it will make the solid axle setup obsolete on all but the heavy duty platforms.

Cool. Great Pic ! That rig looks killer.... All your points are great/valid.... The only issue I have is that when I look at the video of the Defender, no matter what new IFS technology is out there, I still see very little downward articulation and 1 wheel off the ground. If the Bronco behaves the same way, then, what good is all the new technology if they are not putting it in the Defender and Bronco ? It seems like the OEMs require you get a super wide track desert runner to get decent articulation with IFS.

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[TennesseePA]

I found a few more relevant examples. https://www.proformance.com.au/4wd-trophy-trucks

 

[TennesseePA]

The Defender is a Luxury "car" that can do a few things off-road. It is not designed as an off-road truck. And I will say that I doubt the Bronco will incorporate the extreme technology that exists in my examples. I am just using them as an illustration to reinforce my opinion that the technology does exist today. As the price point for the cutting edge technology drops more and more off road rigs will incorporate it.

 

[velogeek]

This is an outdated mentality from an outdated technology. Just a few years ago this was 100% correct but with the technology and metallurgy of 2020 it is no longer true. While rock crawling the most important suspension feature is not up travel but droop. The topside tire will remain in contact with the ground because it is stuffed but the bottom side must droop to remain in contact with the surface. This is difficult to overcome with yesterday's suspension technology because CV joint technology would not accommodate the extreme angles, but now it can. Like I said earlier if you can take and independently suspended Ultra 4 car in win KOH the technology has arrived and it will make the solid axle setup obsolete on all but the heavy duty platforms.

I found a few more relevant examples. https://www.proformance.com.au/4wd-trophy-trucks

You really can't compare a purpose-built off-road vehicle costing upwards of $100k to a commercially available truck that is subject to all kinds of red tape. If you want to play that game a buggy with custom coilovers and SFAs will still articulate better - they just can't match the at-speed performance of a KOH truck which is why IFS is starting to make an appearance.

IFS will always eat up trails at speed better than the SFA but the way a SFA articulates and lifts the vehicle will always be superior at very slow, crawly stuff.

 

[TennesseePA]

I have said several times that I am not comparing the two. I am saying that the potential exists to make IFS and even IRS better in the rocks than solid axles.

And, even though I am not, why can't I compare a $100k ultra tough competition vehicle with a $50k mass produced vehicle. With increased production comes increased efficiency and lower costs. If Ford is ordering 10k suspensions a quarter competition will enter the market and prices will drop further. If you take the build quality that is needed for a solid axle truck to survive KOH and compare it to the build quality of our Gladiators and apply that fraction to an independent suspension setup I think it could be made competitive. The problem IFS and IRS setups face is setting up the suspension to have both proper droop and up travel. Like I said going up is easy it is down that is the problem when it comes to road manners. I suspect that it would require a very high tech electronic suspension solution to keep it from getting squirrelly on the roads.

 

[jurfie]

That thing looks like a blast!

 

[TennesseePA]

That thing looks like a blast!

I can't believe he didn't turn over when he hit that huge rock while we were riding along. He barely even slowed down.

To further reinforce my argument that IFS can be made to work for every day off roaders these guys seem to be doing way more with their trucks than I ever would, and they are doing waaaaay more than the average 4wd owner would. So it would seem that the technology exists today to accommodate 90% of the 1%ers that actually take their rig off road.

 

[velogeek]

I can't believe he didn't turn over when he hit that huge rock while we were riding along. He barely even slowed down.

To further reinforce my argument that IFS can be made to work for every day off roaders these guys seem to be doing way more with their trucks than I ever would, and they are doing waaaaay more than the average 4wd owner would. So it would seem that the technology exists today to accommodate 90% of the 1%ers that actually take their rig off road.

If anything this video proves my point because you're showing highly modified IFS (every truck in that clip had an LT suspension which, with Kings, would be a $10k setup) trucks doing what a Gladiator Rubicon could probably do with a set of 35's.

You can build an IFS that can beat a stock SFA in the rocks just like you can build a SFA truck that will kill a stock IFS truck at speed. It's not about what can be done, it's making a reasonable comparison of similar vehicles like at Taco vs Gladiator or a KOH truck vs a competitive rock crawler.

Dollar for dollar, in a production truck, you are going to get way more bang for your buck on an SFA setup when it comes to rock crawling and slow moving articulation.

 

[TennesseePA]

I think we are having two different conversations. All I am trying to say is THAT IT CAN BE DONE. I would bet that a set of Dana 60s for a Gladiator wouldn’t cost much less than $10k. Some of our friends on this forum have spent way more than that on their rigs. This trucks are proof that IFS rock crawling technology exists today. If there is a sustainable market for the product with the aftermarket or the manufacturers themselves will move in to support it. All I am saying is that IFS is better in every other way than a live axle and can be made comparable in the rocks.

 

[TennesseePA]

And guess who won KOH 2020...a solid front axle truck. But that’s their first win in a few years. The competition will make all design platforms better in the end.

 

[hjdca]

Long Travel IFS Taco bouncing....

 

[WhatExit?]

Hurry please. Your collection of Fords must be angry with you keeping a Jeep next to them.

 

[WhatExit?]

They must have some really smart people at Ford. Somehow FCA figures out how to make a windshield easy to fold down, but not how to change the mirror mounting situation on the JL/JT.

Yeah, cuz this mirror location is so attractive and useful for those who mount A-pillar lights and snorkels, etc. in that area.

I didn't realize buying mirrors is such a huge problem for the people who actually do remove their front doors. I'm so glad Ford has "some really smart people" who made solving that a priority in the design of the Donkey.

 

[MoparDave]

Wake me up when a stock Ford Bronco does the Rubicon Trail.......

 

[NC_Overland]

Wake me up when a stock Ford Bronco does the Rubicon Trail.......

The KJ did the Rubicon trail. They just beat the shit out of it and did a lot of rock stacking.

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