3.6 Engine Tick

[briscoelab]

So mine has rapidly progressed to sounding nearly as bad as the first time around. Not good. It’s another week before we can get into the dealer too.

If it’s the intake cam again, I’m going to push for more extensive work or a new engine. Clearly something more serious was wrong the first time or they didn’t install the new parts properly. Thankfully, it’s still under warranty.

While crawling around under it, I think there is a slow transmission leak too… so at least they can look at both while it’s in there.

We just ordered a ‘24 Rubicon X 4xe Wrangler, so this one is getting traded as soon as that’s in later this summer. I had considered selling this JT on here, bcause of the build. But I won’t sell it to a forum user unless they replace the engine at this point. It’s not that big a deal to strip the parts and RSI cap off it and trade.

(But don’t worry, not going anywhere. Our JTRD isn’t going anywhere )

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[ShadowsPapa]

We just ordered a ‘24 Rubicon X 4xe Wrangler, so this one is getting traded as soon as that’s in later this summer.

You're going to love it...........

 

[briscoelab]

Gas Gladiator went into the dealership this AM for the returned "clacking" and possible slow transmission/TC leak. That was 9am...

Still haven't heard back from them @3:30pm. But, the noise had again progressed to the "not subtle" level. I'm betting the exhaust side is screwed up too and since they didn't replace that last time the inadequate oiling trashed the intake cam again.

Something major has to be wrong for this to come back in 3500 miles from the last repair.

 

[briscoelab]

Saga continues. Dealership verified my leaking transmission and is replacing seals at the output shaft. But, claims the engine is fine, with "no abnormal noise". Ugh... It sounds like my diesel.

Luckily it has 12000 miles left on the powertrain warranty. So we'll drive the crap out of it until they can't ignore the sound.

Granted, it isn't as bad as it was the last time I brought it to them. But it's changed from a baseline normal and is definitely getting worse... after just a few thousand miles.

It might be worth taking it to another dealer, but I'm kinda tired of running around and dealing with it.

 

[Sandman21]

I just got a tick in the last month and its getting worse. I hear it at slower speeds and the sound goes away sometimes. Yesterday I hit a bump in the road and it went away for a couple seconds then came back. Any thoughts? 2020 LE with 52k on motor

Got another one for this thread! This sound is after 2nd trip to the dealer, 3 weeks in total wait to get it back and it’s twice as bad as when I dropped it off 1st time. At the time of that video camshaft on driver side had been replaced. First repair was 2 rockers and lifters + camshaft on passenger side, then it didn’t tick when I got home with it but threw misfire code and had to take back. Today, already over a month without a car, I finally get update, because I asked, that “per new bulletin all rockers on that side will be replaced”. Which side? I don’t know they didn’t specify. Luckily this happened in warranty (barely). How can I not be pissed at Jeep and it’s dealers? How can anyone, or this be acceptable for that matter?

 

[Hootbro]

Got another one for this thread! This sound is after 2nd trip to the dealer, 3 weeks in total wait to get it back and it’s twice as bad as when I dropped it off 1st time. At the time of that video camshaft on driver side had been replaced. First repair was 2 rockers and lifters + camshaft on passenger side, then it didn’t tick when I got home with it but threw misfire code and had to take back. Today, already over a month without a car, I finally get update, because I asked, that “per new bulletin all rockers on that side will be replaced”. Which side? I don’t know they didn’t specify. Luckily this happened in warranty (barely). How can I not be pissed at Jeep and it’s dealers? How can anyone, or this be acceptable for that matter?

That has to be one of the most pronounced tick sounds I have heard on this engine. Sounds like a tick and a large vacuum leak at the same time.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Ironically there's a new "engine tick" TSB out for 22-23 model years.
the fix - replace intake valve adjusters on the side that is ticking. (and it states ONLY on that side)

 

[Hootbro]

Ironically there's a new "engine tick" TSB out for 22-23 model years.
the fix - replace intake valve adjusters on the side that is ticking. (and it states ONLY on that side)

Got a copy you can post?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Got a copy you can post?

Yes ->

(sadly, it covers mine so apparently they are aware of a potential issue with engines made June through the first week of October 2022)

 

[Hootbro]

Yes ->

(sadly, it covers mine so apparently they are aware of a potential issue with engines made June through the first week of October 2022)

Thanks, much appreciated!

I will have to double check my build sticker but I think I have a May 2022 build.

Edit: Have a April 2022 build.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Thanks, much appreciated!

I will have to double check my build sticker but I think I have a May 2022 build.

Mine was built 6-24-22
So far, quiet.
Maybe you saw the oil test results I posted from mine in your own oil test thread.

 

[Hootbro]

Mine was built 6-24-22
So far, quiet.
Maybe you saw the oil test results I posted from mine in your own oil test thread.

I did and mine has been showing no issue so far.

Not worried about it but just something to keep an eye on. I am sure they had a bad batch and painted with a broad brush to cover a wide range for the TSB so it is probably a smaller lot in reality.

 

[Charles 236]

Glad to see that we finally have TSB guidelines for replacement of lash adjusters for the PUG engines. The original Pentastar engines had very few lash adjuster failures, but there is a range of noise in the upgrade Pentastar engines that is definitely not the high lift rocker arms on worn lobes.

Incidentally, I have read on this forum about some PUG engines having exhaust lash adjusters in the intake positions. I took advantage of a recent tear down on a PUG engine for valvetrain noise to actually compare the intake and exhaust lash adjusters. The upgrade engine uses an intake lash adjuster that is a lot taller than the exhaust lash adjuster. I didn't measure it, but it appears to be around a quarter of an inch. This, combined with the lack of any mode of operating the VVL system, makes me wonder how many engine with this particular parts mismatch could make it through the Pre Delivery Inspection. There would be misfire issues at various RPMs, plus noise that couldn't be mistaken for normal.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Glad to see that we finally have TSB guidelines for replacement of lash adjusters for the PUG engines. The original Pentastar engines had very few lash adjuster failures, but there is a range of noise in the upgrade Pentastar engines that is definitely not the high lift rocker arms on worn lobes.

Incidentally, I have read on this forum about some PUG engines having exhaust lash adjusters in the intake positions. I took advantage of a recent tear down on a PUG engine for valvetrain noise to actually compare the intake and exhaust lash adjusters. The upgrade engine uses an intake lash adjuster that is a lot taller than the exhaust lash adjuster. I didn't measure it, but it appears to be around a quarter of an inch. This, combined with the lack of any mode of operating the VVL system, makes me wonder how many engine with this particular parts mismatch could make it through the Pre Delivery Inspection. There would be misfire issues at various RPMs, plus noise that couldn't be mistaken for normal.

I also can't see that happening with such a mix-up. I suspect some mistake or misunderstanding or having things laid out out of order, whatever. I just can't see it as it would put the valves into some extreme positions if there's a length difference as you say (and i do not mean that to doubt you!!!! It's just a figure of speech I'm used to)
It would put a lash adjuster way out of the normal preload spec and I have to assume these have a preload "depth" like the old in-block cam hydraulic lifter had.
I had to shim my roller rocker arms on my 4.0 to get lifter preload depth correct after shaving .024 off the head to raise compression a bit and true up the head.
Run a lifter (or lash adjuster) out of that norm and you are not only not in optimal operation, but can have lash - a tick due to the plunger reaching the top of travel, or have issues with the valve being held open or open too long with the plunger hitting bottom in extreme cases.

I wonder what they "found wrong" or "improved" with the new lash adjusters?
And I note - "change only on the side with the tick" or words to that effect. That makes sense - but what if both sides tick, and why would one side and not the other??

 

[Charles 236]

I also can't see that happening with such a mix-up. I suspect some mistake or misunderstanding or having things laid out out of order, whatever. I just can't see it as it would put the valves into some extreme positions if there's a length difference as you say (and i do not mean that to doubt you!!!! It's just a figure of speech I'm used to)
It would put a lash adjuster way out of the normal preload spec and I have to assume these have a preload "depth" like the old in-block cam hydraulic lifter had.
I had to shim my roller rocker arms on my 4.0 to get lifter preload depth correct after shaving .024 off the head to raise compression a bit and true up the head.
Run a lifter (or lash adjuster) out of that norm and you are not only not in optimal operation, but can have lash - a tick due to the plunger reaching the top of travel, or have issues with the valve being held open or open too long with the plunger hitting bottom in extreme cases.

I wonder what they "found wrong" or "improved" with the new lash adjusters?
And I note - "change only on the side with the tick" or words to that effect. That makes sense - but what if both sides tick, and why would one side and not the other??

Because I was curious, I put one of the exhaust lash adjusters on the intake side just to see how far down in the lash adjuster bore it sat. Since there is about a quarter of an inch difference in height of the adjusters, with the exhaust lash adjusters being shorter, the exhaust lash adjusters don't actually stand high enough to properly locate the intake rocker arms. So it definitely would create very noticeable driveability issues from the first fire of the engine. Also, I noted that the PUG oil galleys for the lash adjusters are machined with different depths for the intake and exhaust sides. This is different from the classic Pentastar engines.

As for what changed in the latest release of the intake lash adjusters, I suspect that it was more of a quality control issue than design issue. There are too many Pentastar engines, both classic and PUG, out there running to high mileage with no problem for me to believe that the design is flawed in any major ways. We currently have both, a Charger with the classic Pentastar and the PUG in my Gladiator. If I didn't trust the Pentastars to be good engines I would not buy them.

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