3.6 Engine Tick

[ShadowsPapa]

I know that the spacing between the intake and exhaust camshafts is the same on both heads.
There are 12 pins or 13 links between the timing marks on the phasers with the cams properly timed, and the secondary timing chains are interchangeable from left to right sides. The rocker arms are also interchangeable from side to side. Until the Pentastar upgrade engines came out, all 24 rockers were the same. So I don't think that there is any difference from left to right heads in valve position in regards to the camshaft position in the head.

That makes sense since the same tool can be used on either side.

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[seven30]

Then we should be seeing left bank exhaust cams fail..........
We didn't see this sort of failures on other engines prior to the VVL design.
What we saw on prior designs was the bearings in the rollers failing.
Think of the pressures on a flat tappet cam that's trying to push up on the short end of a 1.6:1 rocker arm.
The heavy valve spring has a 1.6 times advantage over the cam side, pushing up on that rocker at a big mechanical disadvantage, and the pivot is a simple ball arrangement.
Look how close the push rod is to the rocker fulcrum.

Sure these are making contact closer to the fulcrum than the valve end of the follower, but it's still the ramp that makes it happen and it's not much different than other designs of years ago.
Can't swear to it but I'd bet the cams ride positioned a bit differently over the follower or rocker based on the cam and head. In other words, if all else was exactly the same, bet the heads wouldn't swap side to side simply because of where the cams sit over the follower.
(would love to take some centerline measurements to see how the cams sit over the rockers and how far away the center of the cam is from the center of the valve for each cam, both heads.)

Are exhausts failing too? I thought this issue was mostly right side intake.

 

[Charles 236]

Are exhausts failing too? I thought this issue was mostly right side intake.

I do most of the 3.6 work in my dealership, both original Pentastar engines and the upgrade Pentastar. I have yet to replace an exhaust cam in a Pentastar upgrade engine. On the other hand, any cam and or rocker(s) would fail on the original Pentastar engines.

 

[seven30]

I do most of the 3.6 work in my dealership, both original Pentastar engines and the upgrade Pentastar. I have yet to replace an exhaust cam in a Pentastar upgrade engine. On the other hand, any cam and or rocker(s) would fail on the original Pentastar engines.

How aggressive is the intake lift in these newer motors? From what Ive heard on this thread its usually right side intake that fails first so if you discount the different dynamics cause by the reversed cam/rocker arraingment what else is unique about the right bank?

 

[WFLYNN]

I have a question, I have the Tick, since about 62k it has gotten louder and i recently started getting a Misfire when trying to go past about 3500rpm. I am going to change plugs tomorrow. My concern is that this could be related to the cam issues and affecting vvti, has anybody seen any issues like this? 2020 sport S Thank you

 

[Hootbro]

I have a question, I have the Tick, since about 62k it has gotten louder and i recently started getting a Misfire when trying to go past about 3500rpm. I am going to change plugs tomorrow. My concern is that this could be related to the cam issues and affecting vvti, has anybody seen any issues like this? 2020 sport S Thank you

Yeah, a bunch of people have reported those classic symptoms. Your concerns are valid and you need to get it look at sooner rather than later.

 

[Charles 236]

I have to update my position on oil flow to the intake camshaft. The rotation of the engine tends to draw oil down onto the intake rockers on the left cylinder bank. Oil spray only has a short time on the lobes before it is between lobe and rocker arm. It is maybe 1/4 of a rotation of the cam, so oil doesn't have much time to sling off of the cam. On the right bank, rotation carries oil about 3/4 of the way around the cam before it goes to the rocker arms. This means more time for the right intake camshaft to sling the oil off of the lobe before it gets to the rocker arms. This has to affect the wear on the camshafts and rocker arms unequally, since the right side has a lot more time rotating to get the oil to the rocker arms. Still, I have seen hundreds of these engines that have no problem with cam wear for every one that has a cam failure. But I do intend to stay on top of the maintenance, no oil changes delayed. I definitely don't want to use the oil life monitor, it might say okay for far too long.

 

[briscoelab]

Update on ours:

Dropped it off end of last week and we were out of town until yesterday. So they had enough time to diagnose and fix without it being a hassle on our end.

The verified noise even when at a stop.

Tracked it down to the right bank. Found a failed intake rocker on #5 and damaged intake camshaft. Replaced all rockers, lifters and intake camshaft on that side.

Seems great at the moment. Will update if things change.

Ok, so 5 months later now... here's an update.

Things were great after the service and repair. No noises that seemed odd.
About 500 miles ago I started to hear something that wasn't exactly "right"... but it was mostly after a cold start and would diminish after it warmed up. Since then, it's started getting louder and more noticeable.

It isn't as pronounced as my original noise, which prompted the dealer to replace the right side cam. But I'm betting in another 500 miles it's going to be even more pronounced.

So, either the left bank is failing OR they botched the install on the right side and it's starting to go again. 47,xxx miles on our 2020 LE.

We really wanted to keep this one long term, since it was a LE. But this has us considering trading it in, even if the engine issue gets addressed via the service dept again. Some vehicles are just unlucky

 

[Charles 236]

Don't give up just yet. If it develops the tick again, get the dealership to repair it again. If the right bank intake camshaft is worn again, then a new intake camshaft and intake rockers should be installed. But on the cylinder that has the bad intake rocker, replace the EXHAUST rocker and lifter. I believe that if it develops the tick on the same bank and same intake camshaft lobe, that the exhaust rocker and lifter corresponding to the worn lobe and intake rocker should be replaced. The exhaust rocker is responsible for oiling the intake rocker opposite it. So if it develops the tick on the same lobe, there is most likely a lubrication issue causing it or contributing to it. I explain the oiling in some posts above so it might make sense to replace the exhaust rocker. Just my two cents.

 

[glassjawkid32]

Have had a loud tick since about 7k. Dealership was claiming it could be an exhaust leak but then returned it saying nothing to see here. Gas milage plummeted around the time I noticed the sound with only the addition of line x and a tonneau at the time. Didn't want to wait any longer to finish building it so now I can't wait til one of these SD dealerships screws me for have 5.13s .

 

[Maximus Gladius]

Have had a loud tick since about 7k. Dealership was claiming it could be an exhaust leak but then returned it saying nothing to see here. Gas milage plummeted around the time I noticed the sound with only the addition of line x and a tonneau at the time. Didn't want to wait any longer to finish building it so now I can't wait til one of these SD dealerships screws me for have 5.13s .

5.13’s have nothing to do with gas mileage! 🦾

 

[glassjawkid32]

5.13’s have nothing to do with gas mileage! 🦾

I know but once the tick starts throwing a code dealerships in my area are not great. I'm saying they'll use that to void the warranty even though I've had symptoms since long before.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

5.13’s have nothing to do with gas mileage! 🦾

Seriously?
Joking, I'm sure.

Has little to do with the "tick" other than running the engine at much higher RPM on the highway means you'll be in high lift mode a lot more often. But I'd argue that these have that issue even with 3.73 gears.

 

[Hipbilly]

I'm back into this club.....

My dealer warrantied basically my whole top end at 35k miles for a heavy tick. They replaced all 4 cams, and all associated rockers.

Now I'm at 64k (warranty out.....) and its started ticking again.

My question is..... Is their warranty work covered under "extended" warranty beyond 60K if it didn't work?

 

[Hootbro]

I'm back into this club.....

My dealer warrantied basically my whole top end at 35k miles for a heavy tick. They replaced all 4 cams, and all associated rockers.

Now I'm at 64k (warranty out.....) and its started ticking again.

My question is..... Is their warranty work covered under "extended" warranty beyond 60K if it didn't work?

That is a good question. MOPAR parts warranty is 24 months unlimited mileage but I do not know if that extends to existing warranty repairs.

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