Rear end sagging

[Teqsand]

I would suggest going to a scale and getting your truck weighed when in daily mode vs when loaded up for a trip mode. throwing money at it before you even know and understand the weight situation might work but might not.

I have used 1500 rams for years at work and they start sagging pretty bad after only a couple hundred pounds. And I dont think they worked for 4” of lift? I cant remember exactly though.

Before modifying my own Gladiator and before deciding on what lift to go with I made an extensive spreadsheet with calculations of permanent mount additions (like a canopy), semi permanent items (like say a fridge), and more temporary items (like food and clothes). Granted I knew most of what I wanted to install before even buying the JT as I was reading and exploring various forms for what others did in MY 19/20/21. Then I took the sticker weights and started adding things up. Before I purchased anything, I had a good idea of where it would be, and after going to a CAT scale, have found I am within 5% of my original calculations using a combination of manufacturer specs weights and physically weighing items.

Without datapoints like this, any part(s) you buy will essentially be a shotgun approach. It took me a solid week of a couple hours a night to developed a spreadsheet I was happy with but it helped me to avoid unnecessary money spent

Bought and lifter the JTRD before I opted for the shell and overlanding
Shell is going to remain perminant, although I have considered removing it weigh without it and then back on ....

The RUSTY's 4" lift was perfect before I added the shell, proper unloaded rake and just got level with all the gear in the back...

Bags are non starter for me. They seem to be a bandaid.... I prefer a new spring as I would like to add a RTT at some point also.

Been considering looking at ram 1500 springs but I'm not sure what years the JT shares with the ram, I think it's 19+

4" lift Springs I have currently are triple rate, 13 wrap, 24.5 tall and full compression less than 350 lbs...

Sponsored

 

[Teqsand]

This is why if I ever do a lift, it's going be a lift only. Not a lift and front end level kit.

It had a proper rake before I added the shaell

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

This is why if I ever do a lift, it's going be a lift only. Not a lift and front end level kit.

You’d never do a leveling kit with a lift. The only parts that will work are the coil spacers.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Bags are non starter for me. They seem to be a bandaid.... I prefer a new spring as I would like to add a RTT at some point also.

Bags are for temporary or sometimes loads. Not something you install, inflate to level and then leave it. They are fine for me because they do pretty much nothing right now and only really matter when I tow or haul and I air them up.
If I was loading it up with a rack or other gear that stayed there, I'd not use bags.

 

[firemedic2714]

It had a proper rake before I added the shaell

Jeep made it with that rake knowing that owners would add shells, tonneau covers, dirt, mulch, bricks, etc. and the lift/leveling kits completely negate that and you end up with a Carolina squat if there's ever anything in the bed or even a small trailer hooked up to it.

 

[Teqsand]

Jeep made it with that rake knowing that owners would add shells, tonneau covers, dirt, mulch, bricks, etc. and the lift/leveling kits completely negate that and you end up with a Carolina squat if there's ever anything in the bed or even a small trailer hooked up to it.

Leveling kits by definition yes, maybe some lift kits on accident or intentional, but the 4" RUSTY'S I used kept the factory rake, the almost 300lb shell negated that

 

[Teqsand]

So I decided on springs over bags... talked to Rustys, talked to Synergy, talked to teraflex, several, ALL OF THEM gave me their spring rates and tried to help me solve my problem.... EXCEPT ONE

EVO MFG, contacted them and was told I have two choices, PLUSH or HD, and was told " WE DO NOT DISCLOSE OUR SPRING RATES"...
Well EVO, SCREW YOU.... I cannot compare to see if your product would be the better choice so I will NEVER buy from you.... WTF does "plush" mean, it's subjective and we could all have a different definition of "plush" and "YOUR "HD" might be less than synergys.....

Piss poor customer service

 

[ShadowsPapa]

So I decided on springs over bags... talked to Rustys, talked to Synergy, talked to teraflex, several, ALL OF THEM gave me their spring rates and tried to help me solve my problem.... EXCEPT ONE

EVO MFG, contacted them and was told I have two choices, PLUSH or HD, and was told " WE DO NOT DISCLOSE OUR SPRING RATES"...
Well EVO, SCREW YOU.... I cannot compare to see if your product would be the better choice so I will NEVER buy from you.... WTF does "plush" mean, it's subjective and we could all have a different definition of "plush" and "YOUR "HD" might be less than synergys.....

Piss poor customer service

Wow, a head guy from Synergy messaged me in response to a question on FB, and then one of their resellers was happy to talk with me on the phone. (and I like the dual rate, their charts and the fact they hold my truck with a snow plow and handle fine, and without the snow plow, it's basically the same ride, unlike some other springs. Loaded or unloaded, ride is very similar.
Of course I'm talking FRONT springs.

love it - plush or HD - that's almost funny if it wasn't so sad.
What's wrong with disclosing spring rates? any professional would want to know rates to match things up proper.

 

[Teqsand]

Wow, a head guy from Synergy messaged me in response to a question on FB, and then one of their resellers was happy to talk with me on the phone. (and I like the dual rate, their charts and the fact they hold my truck with a snow plow and handle fine, and without the snow plow, it's basically the same ride, unlike some other springs. Loaded or unloaded, ride is very similar.
Of course I'm talking FRONT springs.

love it - plush or HD - that's almost funny if it wasn't so sad.
What's wrong with disclosing spring rates? any professional would want to know rates to match things up proper.

Same, synergy was spooled up to talk about its product, as was Rustys.... evo wanted no part of it....

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

What's wrong with disclosing spring rates?

A lot if your QC sucks and you source from multiple sketchy suppliers.
They won't even respond to my emails requesting spring rates. But their attitude is not completely their fault:
I put most of the blame on dumb consumers, the vast majority of whom are more infatuated with brand names and buzz terms than actual specs. This forum is replete with guys whom you'd swear wake up in the morning, look in the mirror and see the reflection of their favorite brands staring back at them.
And the evidence these days is that virtually no brand publishes even basic specs, and some act as though you are asking their wife out if you request them.
And it's not like they have the recipe for Coke or KFC either.

Need some advice....

I have a 23 JTRD with a RUSTYS 4" lift and and a steel shell, it sits fairly level empty but sags when I start adding gear, it had a nice (required) rake before the addition of the shell and I need it back so I'm more level with gear and not doing the (fugly) Carolina squat....

What is a good solution?

Does your Jeep bottom out when loaded?

No: Get coil spring spacers in the height you wish to recuperate.
Yes: Get either higher lift and/ or heavier springs.

Are you otherwise satisfied with the ride quality but the Jeep bottoms out?
Get the same spring in a higher lift configuration.

Are you otherwise dissatisfied with the ride quality regardless of sagging?
If ride is too soft, get a firmer taller, spring.
If ride is too firm, get a softer, taller, spring.

 

[Teqsand]

.Does your Jeep bottom out when loaded?

No: Get coil spring spacers in the height you wish to recuperate.
Yes: Get either higher lift and/ or heavier springs.

Are you otherwise satisfied with the ride quality but the Jeep bottoms out?
Get the same spring in a higher lift configuration.

Are you otherwise dissatisfied with the ride quality regardless of sagging?
If ride is too soft, get a firmer taller, spring.
If ride is too firm, get a softer, taller, spring.

there is just no way to reply to this and not sound disrespectful but this is a Capt Obvious answer that doesn't help at all...

Do you havd an actual spring recommendation? A brand? A part number? A load rating? Spring rate?
Something....

It's not bottoming out, it's sagging, making steering less responsive, headlights mis-aimed, less travel offroad...

 

[Blade1668]

Same, synergy was spooled up to talk about its product, as was Rustys.... evo wanted no part of it....

I've had good experience with Rusty’s that go's back to the lift kit on my XJ. I've been by Rusty’s place a few times. The lift kit I got for my JT is from them. I was there getting a set of shocks, the day after my lift kit shipped out. I had a few calls with Rusty’s when I was dialing in my XJ's suspension year ago. Customer service was always a high priority with them, in my experience.

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

there is just no way to reply to this and not sound disrespectful but this is a Capt Obvious answer that doesn't help at all...

there is just no way to reply to this and not sound disrespectful but you are the one making the simple solution complicated.

So you expect a clairvoyant stranger to reply to a vague question and then recommend the solution to which you'll be satisfied?

At the very least captain obvious made an attempt to find out what your overall experience has been, what else you may desire to change, and work from there given the incredible amount of options available.

Do you havd an actual spring recommendation? A brand? A part number? A load rating? Spring rate?
Something....

It would be nice wouldn't it?
You know what else would be nice?
I don't see where you have clarified the obvious questions one needs answered before they could begin to recommend a particular spring from dozens of choices instead of vomiting out brand names which cousin Bob or a guy on YouTube really likes.
This isn't my fault.
It's your fault and the coil spring industry's fault.
Your fault because you haven't specifically articulated exactly what you want, which is not obvious.
And the industry's fault because they don't advertise their products' specs, probably because their customers are more attuned to brand names rather than those pesky specifications which they then have to live up to.

I had a similar problem that you do: a bed regularly loaded down and I didn't want the truck to squat. So I put spacers in which gave a rake a little more than factory (2+") when empty so that when the bed was carrying its standard load (300lbs +/-) there was still just a bit of rake and the ride was still satisfactory as far as the rear springs go.

The right shock absorbers and a horizontal rear track bar will go a lot farther to improving ride quality than any brand rear coil spring anyway.

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

Have you talked to Clayton yet?

Their triple rate rear springs might be what you're looking for.

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

Same, synergy was spooled up to talk about its product, as was Rustys.... evo wanted no part of it....

Got ahold of someone at Evo.
They wouldn't give specs but did say this:

They only make 2 springs: Plush and HD.
They market the HD also as their diesel spring.
Their Plush is comparable to Rubicon Springs.
Their rear HD/ diesel springs ARE NOT a heavier rate. He said they have issues with heavy rate rear springs springing from their perches, so their rear HD/ diesel springs are ½" longer but same spring rate as their "Plush."
(Anyone else think of a 1970s sofa when they hear that word?)

Sponsored