Thoughts on steering issue

[Rubiwoo]

I get that. I was looking for more specifics, like lengths. When I installed those springs super recently, I had some expected spring bow having gone bigger and different from the 3.5” hd springs I had. I looked at the lower spring perch angle and corrected slightly to eliminate it. But my caster is now gone. I’m barely at 1 degree of caster and I can definitely feel it. I just put 1000 miles or so on it. Drives “safely”, for a Jeep, But it used to drive on rails.

Oh sorry.
What brand control arms do you have? Are you using the rock Krawler coil correction wedges?

I can go measure, if that will help you get closer

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[WILDHOBO]

Oh sorry.
What brand control arms do you have? Are you using the rock Krawler coil correction wedges?

I can go measure, if that will help you get closer

I have rock krawler cool correction bases. Yes. Teraflex Alpine IR control arms. Thanks!

 

[professorkx]

That's a hack and should only be done if it's shown there is play. Too many fools treat that as a play adjustment. It's not - it's a PRELOAD adjustment.
That should not be taken lightly like most who have no clue what those look like or how they work or what that adjustment even truly does.
you can get into big trouble with that, but once a Jeep owner says "it's a fix" then suddenly it's a fix, no matter how incorrect they might be.
It's such a critical setting there's a whole paragraph in the TSMs about that setting.

But it's yours to wear out........or lock up.

I had a rock krawler system on my 2014 JK Rubicon, had the exact issue, and chased everything in the front end. Aftermarket wheels, new tires, rebuilt the entire front end, multiple alignments by different shops, all new steering, FOX steering stabilizer, but nothing solved my wandering steering. I never touched the gear box adjustment because of comments like this….until I finally had enough of the poor steering.

The first time, I adjusted the steering box more than a full turn. Guess what, my steering issue went away. At least once a year I repeated the adjustment, but future adjustments were only slight adjustments, something like 1/4 turn. At 150,000 driving mile and at least another 25,000 tow miles behind my motorhome and it still had the same stock steering box…so much for ruining my gear box.

Everything I read said this was the wrong approach and would ruin my steering box and result in a failure….nope, it didn’t.

Folks get to decide on using this approach on their rig, but I was willing to risk having to replace my box, just never became a problem and my poor steering was resolved.

 

[DanJT]

How?! I genuinely want to know. I adjusted my control arms to eliminate spring bow, but my caster is almost zero, and my pinion angle is terrible, like 13 degrees.

II do not know if there is a difference in my 2.5" lift and your 6.5" lift, but it took a lot of ratchet straps to get mine to 0 pinion angle. When I got to where I needed it I torqued the bolts down. And when I checked the Caster it was dead at 6, I did use a digital angle finder for al of this.
I really helped with this!

 

[DanJT]

I get that. I was looking for more specifics, like lengths. When I installed those springs super recently, I had some expected spring bow having gone bigger and different from the 3.5” hd springs I had. I looked at the lower spring perch angle and corrected slightly to eliminate it. But my caster is now gone. I’m barely at 1 degree of caster and I can definitely feel it. I just put 1000 miles or so on it. Drives “safely”, for a Jeep, But it used to drive on rails.

Most web sites of the lift you use will give you the recommended lengths you need. I used mine which led me to the pinion angle and caster angle I needed.

 

[DanJT]

I had a rock krawler system on my 2014 JK Rubicon, had the exact issue, and chased everything in the front end. Aftermarket wheels, new tires, rebuilt the entire front end, multiple alignments by different shops, all new steering, FOX steering stabilizer, but nothing solved my wandering steering. I never touched the gear box adjustment because of comments like this….until I finally had enough of the poor steering.

The first time, I adjusted the steering box more than a full turn. Guess what, my steering issue went away. At least once a year I repeated the adjustment, but future adjustments were only slight adjustments, something like 1/4 turn. At 150,000 driving mile and at least another 25,000 tow miles behind my motorhome and it still had the same stock steering box…so much for ruining my gear box.

Everything I read said this was the wrong approach and would ruin my steering box and result in a failure….nope, it didn’t.

Folks get to decide on using this approach on their rig, but I was willing to risk having to replace my box, just never became a problem and my poor steering was resolved.

I too was a full turn out of spec on my drag link, One full turn and centered the steering wheel and all was good.

 

[Lunentucker]

I don't think I'd try 40's on stock axles and without switching to long arms.
Then you need fully hydro steering to move all of that meat around, unless you're ok with only turning when rolling.
Anyway, less caster seems to have somehow moved something in a favorable direction, so that's good.
As far as sector shaft braces go, and most other suspension and steering components too for that matter, Metalcloak is hard to beat.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The first time, I adjusted the steering box more than a full turn. Guess what, my steering issue went away.

Your steering gear has an absolute problem if you had to go a full turn. It may work, but it's a problematic gear.
The thing is - it may not "ruin" it in the sort term, but it definitely won't last like it should, and isn't right if you simply turned it to take slop out.
The fact there was actually play says - that box was poorly set up, or has another issue inside.
It's not just me saying this - it's the tech manuals, the factory rebuild documents and more. I went through these things in college, and later - properly building and setting them up.
You got damned lucky - having to keep adjusting it just confirms there's a real problem with it inside.
A good one doesn't require any adjustment for at least 100,000 miles or more. Usually the car is toast first.

 

[WILDHOBO]

II do not know if there is a difference in my 2.5" lift and your 6.5" lift, but it took a lot of ratchet straps to get mine to 0 pinion angle. When I got to where I needed it I torqued the bolts down. And when I checked the Caster it was dead at 6, I did use a digital angle finder for al of this.
I really helped with this!

I’ve never used ratchet straps to get the holes to align. I just use a floor jack under the pinion, if I’m trying to rotate the axle forward. To rotate it back, I lift the front of the diff. I do have a skid there, so that helps with leverage while not hurting the diff housing or pinion.

My front is 4.5”. Just the rear is 6.5. The rear is pretty good on pinion angle. I have some spring bow back there though.

The front had great spring alignment, but poor pinion angle. From reading this thread, im wondering if I’m measuring caster wrong. Maybe my caster is too high, and that’s causing my poor pinion angle. I compared the diff spanner casting angles to the frame. What should I be comparing them to?

 

[WILDHOBO]

Most web sites of the lift you use will give you the recommended lengths you need. I used mine which led me to the pinion angle and caster angle I needed.

I’m too far past that because of how Frankenstein my setup is now. Too many vendors are represented. My lack of experience is showing its head. 🫠

 

[ShadowsPapa]

To me the top of the upper ball joint - the angle of the top, should give a solid reading.
Otherwise, it appears if the pinion is 0, the caster is 6 - there are videos out there I haven't actually watched. Maybe that's JK but it would make sense they'd not really change that.

 

[WILDHOBO]

Your steering gear has an absolute problem if you had to go a full turn. It may work, but it's a problematic gear.
The thing is - it may not "ruin" it in the sort term, but it definitely won't last like it should, and isn't right if you simply turned it to take slop out.
The fact there was actually play says - that box was poorly set up, or has another issue inside.
It's not just me saying this - it's the tech manuals, the factory rebuild documents and more. I went through these things in college, and later - properly building and setting them up.
You got damned lucky - having to keep adjusting it just confirms there's a real problem with it inside.
A good one doesn't require any adjustment for at least 100,000 miles or more. Usually the car is toast first.

I have at least two inches of steering wheel play, but “it’s a Jeep”? Being serious, I’m assuming it’s had it, and had been declining for a while. I’m the winter I’m hoping to do big bore steering.

 

[WILDHOBO]

To me the top of the upper ball joint - the angle of the top, should give a solid reading.
Otherwise, it appears if the pinion is 0, the caster is 6 - there are videos out there I haven't actually watched. Maybe that's JK but it would make sense they'd not really change that.

When you say the pinion is zero, do you mean the pinion flange is 90 degrees to a level ground?

Edit, or the spanner castings?

 

[Rubiwoo]

I have rock krawler cool correction bases. Yes. Teraflex Alpine IR control arms. Thanks!

Rough numbers:
UCA = 20.5
LCA = 24.75

 

[WILDHOBO]

Rough numbers:
UCA = 20.5
LCA = 24.75

About to check my lengths.

Here are my current angles. Floor is almost 0, but the comparison should be more important I think.

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