In Your Dreams Sunshine

[Ole Cowboy]

Maybe on YOUR planet.

10 4X4s That Will Outperform The Jeep Wrangler
https://www.hotcars.com/four-by-fou...ep-wrangler-and-that-can-barely-climb-a-hill/

Hey Adam, there is not a rig in that 10 that can spank a Rubicon 2003-2020. I will take a bone stock Rubicon and whip your boys like a rented mule. Pick your playground, Europe, Asia, Latin America, Mexico, or any one of our 50 states. I have wheeled in all of them and most of the 50 to include Alaska and Hawaii. I will grant 1 of the 10, the Defender can go head to head, most of the time.

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[ACAD_Cowboy]

God Adam, that whole list is a shit show written by auto journalists who don’t actually go off roading.

“Most rock journalism is people who can’t write interviewing people who can’t talk for people who can’t read,” F.Zappa via Toronto Star

The article does a horrid job of comparing very diametrically opposed off-road vehicles and draws the conclusions that they are some how “better” by virtue of being bigger, faster or more powerful. None of which makes any difference. It would be as if I said my Aus. Cattle dog is a better castling dog than my corgi because she is larger. Meanwhile my ACD would die from exposure in conditions my corgi will happily shrug off.

The Raptor and Rebel are an an open conditions high speed off road truck and they are not as capable as a wrangler in say northeast forest or south east mire. But a wrangler won’t do 80 across some Altair sand or Nevada BLM washboard. The whole list is comparing apples to oranges to decide which are most like bananas.

@Ole Cowboy i would also include the g-klasse but not the 550 or any of the AMG. A solid G300 or 250 with MT tires is just as handy as a wrangler. The Ariel is a buggy and while it may not be capable of the crazy technical feats, it’s at least as fun in open country for some sun in your eyes bugs in your teeth mud up your nose zoom zoom. I won’t argue the defender at all, they go and do what they say they can and that’s fine by me.

 

[Ole Cowboy]

God Adam, that whole list is a shit show written by auto journalists who don’t actually go off roading.

“Most rock journalism is people who can’t write interviewing people who can’t talk for people who can’t read,” F.Zappa via Toronto Star

The article does a horrid job of comparing very diametrically opposed off-road vehicles and draws the conclusions that they are some how “better” by virtue of being bigger, faster or more powerful. None of which makes any difference. It would be as if I said my Aus. Cattle dog is a better castling dog than my corgi because she is larger. Meanwhile my ACD would die from exposure in conditions my corgi will happily shrug off.

The Raptor and Rebel are an an open conditions high speed off road truck and they are not as capable as a wrangler in say northeast forest or south east mire. But a wrangler won’t do 80 across some Altair sand or Nevada BLM washboard. The whole list is comparing apples to oranges to decide which are most like bananas.

@Ole Cowboy i would also include the g-klasse but not the 550 or any of the AMG. A solid G300 or 250 with MT tires is just as handy as a wrangler. The Ariel is a buggy and while it may not be capable of the crazy technical feats, it’s at least as fun in open country for some sun in your eyes bugs in your teeth mud up your nose zoom zoom. I won’t argue the defender at all, they go and do what they say they can and that’s fine by me.

I almost gave a nod to the G class. But after spending a day on a open course with a G Class. My mother in law LOVED her G Glass AMGs, but hers was an auto and the one was thinking of buying was a stick. I went back to my Jeep. In fact I bought a 2001 Tj instead of the 2001 G Class (NOT a AMG). I did not like the suspension, I thought it was CRUDE wrapped up in a lot of fancy leather and electric windows my Jeeps did not have and it shifted horribly.

My local Land Rover dealer had a Camel Trophy Defender and came within an inch of buying it. But no AC and I was living in Dallas and that kept me from the Defender albeit I wish I had got it, it was KOOL, its was really neat and that Yellow really popped.

It was for sale in the $40k range, forgot exactly, today they are running about $100k: https://www.defendersnorthwest.com/...le-1989-defender-110-csw-camel-trophy-support

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

Just knocked out 8 hours of driving which gave me some more time to think about this article.

I think the real problem is that the author is conflating all wheel drive capability with off road capability which is why nearly all the lesser machines are unibody haldex type sport utility cross overs. Again the author is failing us by not making accurate comparisons. The wife’s glk350 4matic is great for just plain driving when it snows, far more comfortable but no where near as capable as my Rubicon when the snow deepens. But this is a known thing, it was never intended to go bust up snow drifts or plow or break trail in hood deep powder. But by the same coin, my Rubicon wasn’t intended to do 90 on the entrance ramp and corner at 80 with almost disinterested ease.

 

[Ole Cowboy]

Just knocked out 8 hours of driving which gave me some more time to think about this article.

I think the real problem is that the author is conflating all wheel drive capability with off road capability which is why nearly all the lesser machines are unibody haldex type sport utility cross overs. Again the author is failing us by not making accurate comparisons. The wife’s glk350 4matic is great for just plain driving when it snows, far more comfortable but no where near as capable as my Rubicon when the snow deepens. But this is a known thing, it was never intended to go bust up snow drifts or plow or break trail in hood deep powder. But by the same coin, my Rubicon wasn’t intended to do 90 on the entrance ramp and corner at 80 with almost disinterested ease.

Having busted trails for nearly 60 years, the further I go into belly of the beast, the tougher the trails the fewer vehicles I see until what time it's nothing but SWB Jeeps. The SWB Jeep was built to tackle the world and it has. One of the worst mistakes the military made was dropping the Jeep, everything they have tried to replace it has never lived up to the job...

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

But the mutt... you could change the tire without a jack and if you exceeded the speed limit everyone died instantly.

Or the mule or the gamma goat...

I fully understand why the Jeep was as handy and functional as it was and why it was eclipsed in mil-spec service. And yes the deeper you go and the hairier it gets I expect to see pretty much two things; a CJ and a SC3800 swapped early samurai.

Now for giggles Doug DeMuro took his Range Rover on some trails and it did get through but the trails didn’t look especially nasty or challenging but he did it. Some other chuckle head off roaded their Tesla.

Using the metrics provided, the Tesla offers far superior mileage than any wrangler and the Range Rover is far more powerful and luxurious so obviously both are far better off roaders, using the logic of the article.

 

[Ole Cowboy]

But the mutt... you could change the tire without a jack and if you exceeded the speed limit everyone died instantly.

Or the mule or the gamma goat...

I fully understand why the Jeep was as handy and functional as it was and why it was eclipsed in mil-spec service. And yes the deeper you go and the hairier it gets I expect to see pretty much two things; a CJ and a SC3800 swapped early samurai.

Now for giggles Doug DeMuro took his Range Rover on some trails and it did get through but the trails didn’t look especially nasty or challenging but he did it. Some other chuckle head off roaded their Tesla.

Using the metrics provided, the Tesla offers far superior mileage than any wrangler and the Range Rover is far more powerful and luxurious so obviously both are far better off roaders, using the logic of the article.

Mutt/mule were bad news flipped just by looking at them, the Gamma Goat was on deadline more than it was running, failure rate was near 100%. The Hummer would only go were some guy in a bigger tank or PC had gone before and it became so weighty it became under powered.

That said the M151 XX was also a disaster. The problem, built to Mil-Spec, in this case, Independent Rear suspension on coil springs. Of course, they put coils in there that was so strong that when you went around a corner the rear wheel would droop, go fast and the droop became a lever that flipped your Jeep. SO the Jeep became a KILLER and it KILLED a lot of soldiers and put more in hospitals. Bad design by the Army, they would have been better off had they bought real Jeeps and painted them OD.

But there was one shining star only the Army never bought enough...Chevy Blazers, they went with the Jeeps to be replaced by the Hummer, which was so noisy that in combat the enemy could hear you coming for miles...

 

[smlobx]

Just to add a different point to this discussion. The most popular off-road vehicle in the world is not a Jeep...it’s a Land Cruiser, specifically the 79 Series.

I’ve had the opportunity to drive these on several occasions in places that few other vehicles would go. It is truly a very capable truck.

Unfortunately, that vehicle is not available in the US and is actually very expensive where it is for sale. When the Gladiator was announced I realized that it would be the only other vehicle with the same capabilities and so I have ordered one. I just wish we could get one with a diesel without all the emission junk on it.

Now back to the regular discussion......

 

[Ted Striker]

I wouldn't get too worked up over this "article". It's a quickly put together click piece for an obscure website. The author of the article (if you can call him that) basically wrote this in 10 minutes and has never actually driven any of the vehicles on this list. I'd even be surprised if it wasn't copy/pasted/translated from a foreign piece. It's filler for website space, that's all it is. No one is going to take it seriously. Especially with gems like this:

Lincoln yours about the Navigator’s adaptive suspension. but when the vehicle sits so low to the ground, it doesn’t do much good.

Once off the paved roads it’s struggles to perform. At least you’ll know that if you get into an accident there’s no Alsace’s place to be.

The author didn't even bother to proofread it before publishing it. That's how much thought he put into it. I wouldn't put much more.

 

[Ole Cowboy]

Just to add a different point to this discussion. The most popular off-road vehicle in the world is not a Jeep...it’s a Land Cruiser, specifically the 79 Series.

I’ve had the opportunity to drive these on several occasions in places that few other vehicles would go. It is truly a very capable truck.

Unfortunately, that vehicle is not available in the US and is actually very expensive where it is for sale. When the Gladiator was announced I realized that it would be the only other vehicle with the same capabilities and so I have ordered one. I just wish we could get one with a diesel without all the emission junk on it.

Now back to the regular discussion......

I am guessing that is based upon world sales???

The FIRST Toyota Land cruiser was built on a jeep frame and driveline. The US gave the rights to Toyota to build a 'Jeep' and the motor.

Almost bought one not long ago, but it had front end body damage needed new fenders/hood, but I am not a body work guy, engine work ok, so I passed.

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

I know. But it makes us feel better to have something to complain about.

The whole family of GM and Mopar CUCV are great ideas. The Navy also bought a bunch of weird ford pickups, full size crew cabs with a long bed with a single rear axle. Loooooong truck is loooooong.

I do t mind the H1 so much, in its pure form it’s not a bad utility vehicle in that knock around and don’t care about the dents way buts wide as all get out and seating is so limited for such a large vehicle.

 

[Ole Cowboy]

I know. But it makes us feel better to have something to complain about.

The whole family of GM and Mopar CUCV are great ideas. The Navy also bought a bunch of weird ford pickups, full size crew cabs with a long bed with a single rear axle. Loooooong truck is loooooong.

I do t mind the H1 so much, in its pure form it’s not a bad utility vehicle in that knock around and don’t care about the dents way buts wide as all get out and seating is so limited for such a large vehicle.

Yea the H1 was good, but it sure put on a lot of weight over the years.

So I was in DC for meetings at the Pentagon for a few days and I am coming out of the motel and stopping off a McD's for breakfast. I follow a H1 in to the parking lot and like WOW, first one I have ever seen up close. I am in uniform and I start talking to the guys about why and where is this the new Army H1 etc. Yes and yes and since I am in uniform, let me on a little secret. THIS one is being tested in DC traffic and shown to folks at the Pentagon etc AND will be shipped off to the Arnold himself, this will be his personal H1... WOW

 

[Slapping_Rabbits]

They should've included one of these

 

[Ole Cowboy]

They should've included one of these

not sure how much go you get from 1 drive wheel...

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

Yes but ice racing studs!

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