CB radio is dead. Stop installing them and get a VHF/UHF instead!!!

[12BNNT]

Couple of notes on the subject;
(@Oscar Indy , Please correct me if I’m mistaken or I screw up any of the terms - it’s been a while since I read up on all this and some was gleaned from a radio repair guy I knew that did all kinds including CB and ham)

Yes - “ham” radios will out perform a CB any day of the week mainly because of output and broadcast spectrum (?right word?).
Basically CB radios (11 meter Citizen Band) were approved for anyone without license by the FCC years ago. But there are restrictions to that such as a 4 watt maximum output and smaller frequency widths. As per your chart above, different frequencies and radio types have different limits on output and band width. Frs is limited to 2watts but at a better, narrower, broadcast spectrum the 2 watts goes out pretty much exactly at the frequency you’ve selected whereas a CB may have a 4 watt rating (but as said may only be pushing 2) the broadcast may not be tuned as precisely so it gets lost a bit between points A and B. The way the radio guy explained it to me was to picture a mag light beam. Bigger battery but focus set more to flood and you can see a short ways, smaller battery but set to more focused beam and you can see even farther. Combine the two such as a mobile ham that can push 40 watts or more and you get a mag light with big batteries and a focus beam that shines a long way. If I remember right it had something to do with the difference in crystals and finals in the two.
A couple people asked about combo radios so I thought I would clarify one thing that may help them understand. Every “Band” in the radio world are a set of frequencies from ‘x’ to ‘y’. Such as CB (11meter) is 26.xxx to 28.xxx (I think). Ten meter is the set below that numerically and 12 meter is above picking up where 11 meter stops. Common bands for private use (and some business frequencies in there) are 2,10,11(CB),12 and then in the upper ranges like vhf and uhf (400’s and 440’s) I have a 10/12 meter unit that ranges from low 10 meter to upper 12 which gives me 11 meter in the middle (although there is differences in am and fm). The gist of it is you won’t find a radio that can do both 27.xxx for cb and 440.xxx. Too wide of a difference.
Anyway, I agree hams have a better quality output and receipt and better range but at the same time once you try to pull away from the status quo cb frequency for common use you have to figure out which range to go to and then everybody starts running that and it becomes as cluttered as 11 meter. I just set mine down to 4watt and back the gain and squelch down to the point I can hear the guys close to me and not all the background chatter.

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[SumoBudah]

You could replace your FM broadcast antenna with a FRS/GMRS antenna using whats called a Duplexer. It splits the radio signals based on the frequency..https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/cma-cf-142

Broadcast radio is 88-108Mhz which is VHF - https://www.fcc.gov/general/fm-radio
FRS/GMRS is 462.56-462.72Mhz which is UHF - https://www.fcc.gov/general-mobile-radio-service-gmrs
CB is 26.965-27.406Mhz which is HF - https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-division/citizens-band-radio-service-cbrs
MURS is 151-154 MHz- https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-division/multi-use-radio-service-murs

The hard part is getting an antenna that is resonant on both of the frequencies that you are trying to listen to.

Something like this is resonant fairly close to both bands so it might work but would have issues farther out, so on the FM side 88 FM might have static and 22 GMRS might have issues. https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/cma-hp-32fhn

That said, it's probably not worth doing, not super cost effective, would likely not work super great, and voiding a your warranty on your head unit is a bit sketchy.

There are radios that work on UHF (440Mhz 70cm), VHF (220Mhz 1.25m (uncommon), 144 2m), and HF (50Mhz 6m, 28Mhz 10m) such as the Yaesu FT-8900R, but they are Ham radios, usually requiring multiple antenna to use all of those frequencies, and would require a license to use and would be illegal to transmit on FRS/GMRS as they are not type accepted (FCC Part 95). Also the 10m band requires a higher level license to use and doesn't make much sense for trail use, This is the band that is closest to CB.

http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Regulatory/Band Chart/Band Chart - 11X17 Color.pdf

 

[Oscar Indy]

Couple of notes on the subject;
(@Oscar Indy , Please correct me if I’m mistaken or I screw up any of the terms -

Sounds like you nailed it and the explanation is spot on.
Only problem with this conversation is we aren't really discussing HAM frequencies and the need to decide what ban to run on is handled if you pick FRS /GMRS since they are both UHF and MURs is VHF but most radios especially the ones listed here will cover both. They also can transmit in the business band effectively which is 150-155 ish.

If you opt for a ham liscense you are limited in the bands you can use by the liscense level you test for so if you just get the basic one you will be in nearly the same boat with a different range open. Going past that you'll have more tests and fees to move up in liscense class and that makes things much more complex. At this point I'd assume the individual has enough experience and understanding to move up without my help.

I'm just trying to make it easier for people to leave CB

 

[llara]

Good for 50 watts and has incredibly clear signal.

This is not necessary for trail coms. But on this setup I have had clear coms with another similar radio 56 miles away on low power or 10 watts. It was straight across desert and the other guy was slightly elevated when we tested it. Didn't realize I was on low power or I would have pushed it further. A handheld at 4 watts won't do this but that is mostly the antenna. Seriously whatever handheld you get... Get a good aftermarket antenna. The Nagoya 701 or 771 is a great antenna just be sure to buy from a reputable source. In my experience in the cheap handheld department the antenna is more important than the actual radio.

Hi Oscar.. what antenna is this? I'm currently using a magnetic mount but I would like to do something like the pictured one. TY

 

[WhatExit?]

Sounds like you nailed it and the explanation is spot on.
Only problem with this conversation is we aren't really discussing HAM frequencies and the need to decide what ban to run on is handled if you pick FRS /GMRS since they are both UHF and MURs is VHF but most radios especially the ones listed here will cover both. They also can transmit in the business band effectively which is 150-155 ish.

If you opt for a ham liscense you are limited in the bands you can use by the liscense level you test for so if you just get the basic one you will be in nearly the same boat with a different range open. Going past that you'll have more tests and fees to move up in liscense class and that makes things much more complex. At this point I'd assume the individual has enough experience and understanding to move up without my help.

I'm just trying to make it easier for people to leave CB

I appreciate your efforts to educate the masses well, us anyway. I've been looking at comms for a long time while I've used CB, FRS and I've even used HAM (handheld) without a license. Signal is great but...

There are few subjects I've seen in the offroading world as complicated as radio frequencies, which radio options are best and why. And the discussions of these subjects are almost always lengthy, never simple and, in the end, as clear as mud to me. Tests, multiple license levels, threat of fines and people monitoring frequencies looking to blast newbs make all of this way more complicated for most which is, I believe, why CB radios continue to flourish.

KISS is what's important to me and I think most people. After all I/we aren't going off roading nearly as often as we'd like and when we do we have far more important things to do than worry about how to use a radio for communication. CBs and walkie talkies are as simple as it gets. While they aren't as effective as the other options there are too many options and very few want to use more than 1 means of communication off road.

I'm always interested in this subject but in the end always more than a little perplexed by it all...

 

[Oscar Indy]

Hi Oscar.. what antenna is this? I'm currently using a magnetic mount but I would like to do something like the pictured one. TY

That's actually a mag mount with a piece of metal I bent and just unscrewed from the magnet.

 

[Oscar Indy]

Tests, multiple license levels, threat of fines and people monitoring frequencies looking to blast newbs make all of this way more complicated for most which is, I believe, why CB radios continue to flourish.

.

Yeah I hate ham Nazis. Whole process of tests and them being douche bags to anyone who asks a question had driven me away from getting a liscense many times.
GMRS FRS is just as simple as CB in my opinion and that's why I tried to focus this discussion here towards that.

 

[SumoBudah]

I've had my license for a while. I've never had a great use for it but the information is great to have.

Pretty good timing as well,

 

[Oscar Indy]

I've had my license for a while. I've never had a great use for it but the information is great to have.

Pretty good timing as well,

I like the setups they are coming out with. Little expensive for what they are but I know people appreciate turnkey options

 

[N6WT]

I totally agree that CB is not good to use on the trail.

However, if you are just trying to communicate between vehicles that are less than 500 yards apart, then it should be fine. Just find and open channel (there are 40 of them). If you are in your convoy heading to the trail you may have interference from other stations and other things. Just turn up the squelch and hope you can hear each other.

I would suggest that if you want reliable long range communication you need to get your ham tech license. Again, this is for reliable long range comms.

Most 2m/70cm ham radios can be modified to operate on the MURS, FRS/GMRS frequencies (not CB). It is illegal for a ham to operate there but I doubt they will ever be caught (don’t give out your call sign, DUH).

I have seen plenty of people that do not have their ham license with modified ham radios in their vehicles. If you are going to do this just take the test and get your tech license. It is really not that hard!

So, do you need long range comms?? Sure, it would be nice to have it. But do you really need it?? If the answer is yes, get your license.

There are plenty of ways to study for your license. Here is one that costs $25.
http://hamradioprep.com/

There are many that don’t cost a thing.
https://hamexam.org/

Good Luck!
73
Kent
N6WT

 

[WhatExit?]

Here's what I found as it helps me clarify the spaghetti of frequencies.

Many of the Ford Raptor crowd swear by "Race Radios" and while they do use them there's always a discussion (always with every group I've seen) about all the frequencies/types of radios and licenses.

According to this website (link below)... “Race Radios” are just commercial radios that are pre-programmed with the business frequencies that the race teams at King of the Hammers uses for their pit crews. In other words, they (Race Radios) are limited use PLMR radios. Which means, you need to have a commercial license that explicitly gives you permission to be using any 1 of the 20-30 channels that come pre-programmed on race radios. It is illegal to use these without that license, even if you have a ham license (amateur radio operator license). More on Race Radios below meanwhile I found this helpful:

The FCC Radio Services
CB – Citizens Band, operates on 40 channels in the 26-27 Mhz frequencies, No license required. Capped at 4 watts of power.
MURS - Multiple Use Radio Service, Operates on 5 channels around 152 Mhz, No License required, capped at 2 watts of power
FRS – Family Radio Service, Operates on 15 channels around 462 Mhz at 2 watts, and 7 channels around 467 Mhz at half a watt, No License required.
GMRS – General Mobile Radio Services, Operates on 22 channels around 462 and 467 Mhz, capped at 5 watts, half a watt, and 50 watts depending on the channel, License Required
Ham Radio – Amateur Radio Service, Operates all over the place, capped at 1500 watts, License Required.
PLMR – Private Land Mobile Radio (Race Radios), Commercial frequencies operated in the 150MHz and 160-170MHz regions. In order to operate on these frequencies, you must purchase a license explicitly for that frequency, to be used for business purposes. Think taxi companies, tow companies, logging companies, campgrounds etc.

And I understand this - I hope it's correct:
* Race Radios can be either UHF or VHF (so confusing!)
* MURS is a subset of VHF
* MURS cannot communicate with just any VHF radio - it has to be with a MURS radio

About Race Radios...
“Race Radios” are just commercial radios that are pre-programmed with the business frequencies that the race teams at King of the Hammers uses for their pit crews. In other words, they are limited use PLMR radios. Which means, you need to have a commercial license that explicitly gives you permission to be using any 1 of the 20-30 channels that come pre-programmed on race radios. It is illegal to use these without that license, even if you have a ham license (amateur radio operator license).

The caveat to race radios channels, is that not only do you need to have a license that states you have permission to use that frequency, but the license must also say over what geographic area you are allowed to use it. Because there are thousands and thousands of businesses all over the country that depend on their radio communications for their business, they will share frequencies, but be in completely different areas. So a tow company in Northern California might be using the same frequency as “BFGPITS”, which is reserved for the BFG Race Team in the 75 mile radius of Johnson Valley. So, just because you have permission to use BFG’s channels in Johnson Valley, does not mean you can legally use them outside of Johnson Valley.

So, unless you actually use the radio within the 75 miles of Johnson Valley, you are probably going to be operating a “race radio” illegally. We have talked with a certain company multiple times at events, and on the phone about this problem, and they seem to not care that they are setting up their customers for a $10,000.00 fine from the FCC.

Link to some of the above (and more info):
https://myoffroadradio.com/difference-between-ham-radio-race-radio-murs-gmrs-frs-cb/

 

[WhatExit?]

Link to some of the above (and more info):
https://myoffroadradio.com/difference-between-ham-radio-race-radio-murs-gmrs-frs-cb/

More from the above link:

In the end, all of these options are going to work well, depending on what you are trying to do. If you just want to talk vehicle to vehicle, a 2watt FRS or MURS setup, with an antenna on the outside of your vehicle, would work just fine.

GMRS would be your next best option, but you will need a license ($70 with the FCC) to use, and you won’t be able to make use of repeaters in emergency situations, as there aren’t really any repeaters setup outside of cities or metropolitan areas.

Ham radios are still your best option for off road communications. They operate on multiple frequencies and bands, they operate at higher power, they make use of repeaters, and the license is only $15 with the FCC. You could take our online Ham Radio class, AND get your ham radio license for cheaper than a GMRS license.

 

[Oscar Indy]

Great extra info @WhatExit?
Rugged Radios is really bad about doing that too. They sell these blue Baofengs for 5x what one coast and people gobble it up thinking they don't need a liscense.

Radioreference.com actually has all the freq registered to each business by county.
If you look up JV which is san bernadino county you will not find any of those freq listed. Everyone registers at their home of reference and when they input their units there is a code for country wide mobile unit.
But a business liscense is about 450to525 depending on setup and is good for 10 years.

I'm actually looking at picking one up for our race team. it's a pain in the ass.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Trucker here, keep using the CB, at least out on the highway. I still use my CB when I can.

 

[Jellygladiator]

I was told with my pacemaker I can’t be around a HAM radio anyone here can confirm that or help with info on it ?

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