Shocking new gas prices [CLOSED DUE TO POLITICS. VIOLATORS BANNED]

[ShadowsPapa]

By the way - electricity in Iowa is among the cheapest in the country.
5% comes from nuclear generation, In 2020, three-fifths of Iowa's total electricity net generation came from renewable resources, almost all of it from wind. Iowa was the second-largest wind power producer, after Texas.
Hmmm, so wind won't cut it, interesting. I pay less for electricity than most of the forum members, it's plentiful here, no trouble even in peak times.

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[ecidiego]

California? Meh, maybe not - today.

California cannot handle current. Constant rolling blackouts in the summer here in SoCal. We shut San Onofre ( nuclear boobies ) and replaced that loss with far more expensive coal fired power imported from Arizona and a bunch of Natural Gas generation. If all of a sudden there were millions of EVs there would be no power to charge them.

 

[ecidiego]

Hmmm, so wind won't cut it, interesting.

Obviously regional. Look at CA energy use to Iowas.

 

[MrZappo]

California cannot handle current. Constant rolling blackouts in the summer here in SoCal. We shut San Onofre ( nuclear boobies ) and replaced that loss with far more expensive coal fired power imported from Arizona and a bunch of Natural Gas generation. If all of a sudden there were millions of EVs there would be no power to charge them.

Yes, there would be insufficient power "TODAY" in the most power dense cluster of humanity across all of time. Also consider that progress has been quashed at every corner for decades by various groups.

So, since California would have a problem if "all of a sudden there were millions of EV's" (Which would never happen) that argument works in all other places ? Nope ...

 

[ecidiego]

Yes, there would be insufficient power "TODAY" in the most power dense cluster of humanity across all of time. Also consider that progress has been quashed at every corner for decades by various groups.

So, since California would have a problem if "all of a sudden there were millions of EV's" (Which would never happen) that argument works in all other places ? Nope ...

It works in any metro area with meaningful population density.

Sure, solar is great in rural areas, if you have good sun.

CA has wind farms in the eastern desert and south of the bay area. Usually 100s of windmills with stationary blades.

 

[MrZappo]

It works in any metro area with meaningful population density.

Sure, solar is great in rural areas, if you have good sun.

CA has wind farms in the eastern desert and south of the bay area. Usually 100s of windmills with stationary blades.

It works (TODAY) yep ...

And does that mean that it will work "forever" ? Seriously I dont get your argument ... Your saying that TODAY in certain areas the grid is borderline. Ok ... And that TODAY if millions EV's were added (something that wont happen), that it would not handle it ? Great ... So, if the thing that wont happen happens than the thing that is borderline would have a problem ...

So, if we do nothing and add a ton of power load than there will be a problem ... Ok, and if we do nothing to the roads, there will be bad traffic, and if we dont create new cancer drugs, people will die ... So what ?

Power systems will improve over time to handle the load while at the same time existing loads will become more efficient as @ShadowsPapa alluded to ... And due to the nature of society, it will likely always be borderline in some places and there will be excess capacity elsewhere ...

The argument that if we inject a future quantity of electric cars onto a present capacity power grid is a flawed argument.

Times will tell, more EV's will be created, we will respond by adding capacity, etc etc etc ... Like we have always done ... It aint rocket science ...

 

[ecidiego]

Power systems will improve over time to handle the load

This isn't happening in all areas though. CA generated less power last year than the year prior, while demand went up. It was "solved" by denying power via blackouts. Denying power isn't a solution.

Renewables are not there yet. Until they are, generate power. Don't shut down nuclear reactors that provided 2.2 gigawatts of power to San Diego. My winter electric bill went from $160/mo to $350/mo when those reactors were taken offline.

 

[MPMB]

Nuclear would solve everything. Problem is the average ignorant Joe Public thinks a reactor is a bomb, or that reactors can only be 70 year old designs like Fukushima.

Modern reactors are completely safe and 100% green. Too bad the US won't promote them.

A totally EV country can only happen with either Oil/Coal/Gas or Nuclear. None of the other garbage like solar and wind could ever come close.

Ever look at the map of the US of nuclear power plants? The west is hugely empty compared to east. Plenty of expansion with proper & new technology. Not to mention research reactors.

As far as the electric grid goes, people are relatively ignorant.

The electrical grid, as a whole, isn't without hiccups, and right now, the grid can't be reliable in terms of massive EV support. Which is different than unable to support.

Tornados and floods and storms take out how many power services per year? California rolling blackouts. Summer brownouts. The massive blackout in the NY-NE area years ago.

Right now it isn't a big deal because most people still commute in a fuel-operated vehicle. EV charging away from home and/or work is still inefficient. I wish it wasn't.

In any rate, a hybrid is probably on the list for the next vehicle. While I have cheap electricity here in WA (hydroelectric), an EV isn't something that fits in our lifestyle.

 

[MrZappo]

This isn't happening in all areas though. CA generated less power last year than the year prior, while demand went up. It was "solved" by denying power via blackouts. Denying power isn't a solution.

Yep ... And this was not because we dont know what to do to solve it or that technology does not exist to solve it ... It is because of people, opinions, political pandering and other forms of BS ....

Brown outs are not enough if an irritation to cut through red tape ... As soon as the right people have to turn their AC up or cant power their gold carts you will see some progress ...

 

[slim chance]

i worked in electric marketing before retiring .... the reason rates are currently lower is during the mdt period higher cost gen is off line .... when the EV load doubles the higher cost units will be needed during the mdt (10p to 6a) period ... that will also force the running rates higher during the peak periods .... electric for home use will no longer be "cheap" ... AND like at Three Mile Island when it takes over 700 employees to run one unit, nukes will not be completive and be retired like TMI

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Tornados and floods and storms take out how many power services per year?

Yes, and we understand that as well as anyone, but they are typically very regional and generators are becoming extremely common at least in our area. Wouldn't take much of a generator at all to charge a vehicle in an emergency.
We got by for several days without power more than once in the last 2.5 years, but charging a car would not have been easy.

In Iowa, as far as "how much" and the infrastructure, we'll be fine - Since 2008, Iowa has generated more electricity each year than was used in Iowa.
The excess power is sent to other states over the regional electric grid.

On the other hand, it takes more driving to get to anywhere in some places so electric, pure electric, won't be very practical HERE. I made 4 trips to town yesterday - EV would be iffy. Hybrid, yeah.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

 

[JeepBeerSleep]

This statement above and the earlier one " The electric infrastructure will never be able to handle EV. Its a myth. A ruse . A joke. " are interesting to me ...

I'm not anti fossil fuel, far from it ... I'm not anti electric either ...

But when people (anyone) makes statements of "fact" and imply that others are "wrong" or say things like "the electrical supply will NEVER be able to handle something, it just looks to me like you are showcasing your short sightedness and lack of imagination ...

The electric infrastructure will NEVER be able to handle it ? What on earth are you talking about ? If you mean that it wont handle it (In its current form) than yes ... But ya know the electric infrastructure of the 1950's would NEVER have been able to handle what it handles TODAY AND EVERY DAY. Technology will get better, power generation will get more efficient, infrastructure will grow and improve etc etc etc ... As always we will find a way to solve the problems that we have. It wont happen overnight but cmon man, NEVER ? How could you possibly know that ? It will definitely take a while and will be hard but NEVER ? Please ......


And as far as best and most reliable, Id say that nuclear energy holds that title in my mind although the political winds sway in and out of supporting it mostly because of fear and ignorance ... And "dont need to ween" well, whatever ... We wont be out of it for a LONG time yes ... but saying that we "dont need to" ? Yeah no ... We at least should be paying attention to it ...

"You just think that" cmon ... That's quite a troll thing to say ... Because anyone could easily say that same thing to you or to anyone ...

"And many others are wrong too" ??? Maybe they are, but if you expect anyone to go along with you maybe you should share your credentials with the group ... Are you in the energy business ? Why do you get to say that many others are wrong ? Or are you just blowing smoke ?

no smoke here. i am certain that many are wrong. so many people repeat that we need to "ween off of oil" we dont need. we never will need. at some point it may be more practical to use other forms of fuel but there is no need.

i am very pro nuke. when we build small nuke plants all across America my point may no longer be true.

i see that i can come across as troll-like. its because i get irritated when people say we need when in fact we dont.

im not the same guy who says we will NEVER be able to have that type of electric grid. in fact i welcome EV's and a more robust grid. but the fact remains fossil fuels right now are the best we got for households including the vehicles in said houses.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Found an interesting trivial bit while looking into the reality of wind here -
Further growth of wind farms is slowing here because of lack of transmission lines, and,
From October 23 to 24, 2017, wind power provided all the power consumed by MidAmerican Energy's Iowa customers. This was the first time wind generation reached this threshold, aided by sustained winds of 25 mph (40 km/h) with gusts to 40 mph (65 km/h).
For 2 days 100% of our power came from wind.

 

[Free2roam]

Is this a viable battery option?

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