2025 Mojave X

[OldButStillJeeping]

Depending on Gov Regs, dealers have to maintain a log of past sales for several years, So, Doc fees are there because there is that cost of doing retail auto sales.
I think hard copies must be maintained despite the fact that you may have only received a memory stick with your Docs when you bought the Jeep. For litigation reasons, hard copies exist.
Those hard copies of your sale are maintained in a high security environment and after a few years are shredded by licensed security companies. Only a select few - background checked employee's have access to the files.
The $180 or so, give or take, is for your security and for the dealer's expense of securing and maintaining it for the regulated term. Then they have to shred it.

That's why I bargain OTD price, not itemized. I don't want to see $180 for "processing". The dealer works it out. And we have a deal or we don't.

Edit: With all due respect it is not just smoke and mirrors. It is not a scam. It is the price to maintain secure docs of your sale, for several years, secured, and then shredded by insured companies. It really is a small price to pay. And it is there for transparency.

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[Anchovypizza]

Btw. Hi OP i responded to you Reddit thread so figured I’d say hi here too. Good luck

Hi! Thanks again for the info. I think my post has put some good info out there for the 2025s first a post 20% off a 2024 world lol.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Edit: With all due respect it is not just smoke and mirrors. It is not a scam.

Never said a scam, it's not. Businesses like that are wildly expensive to operate!
But there IS a lot of psychology, like I said earlier.
Moving costs here and there to make things more appealing to buyers. The internet is full of great examples- some make it appear you are saving a bundle, then get much of that back in fees while others build most of that into the cost of doing business, fewer discounts, discounts that aren't as deep, trade prices and more.

I've had some good, honest chats with my sales guy - off away from the rest of the group over coffee, and he's explained it very well.

It's all how dealers choose to make it appear. They must make money - I was told the prices of some of what FCA insists they have just to keep the franchise. They had to do a complete remodel, signage had to meet certain specs, they must be some level with FCA as they said they had to install that fancy paperless system, install 3 EV charging stations at a cost of 85K each, crazy.
It's no wonder some sales people fall out after a while and move on. My guy has been there something like 25 years.

 

[Janster]

Including power leather seats? Safety package, convenience group (including the "cold weather package), tech package, leather-wrapped shift knob and parking brake handle, SelecTrac transfer case, body color roof and fender flares...............

Did the 21’s have Adaptive Cruise?

 

[Hootbro]

Did the 21’s have Adaptive Cruise?

Adaptive Cruise Control has been available since launch with the 2020 models

 

[Mr Miami]

It's all 100% on the computer now. In fact, the title application is the click of a button and it goes right to the appropriate county. Similar for other things - it's all online. There's really no paper to it. Last time we bought, everything came on a thumb drive. We signed a screen built into the desktop.
All documents were online and automated. Type in our name and other information into the computer. We sign the lines on the desktop.
Click - its done. No paper.
Title application is at the county office before we get out of the chair.

You are absolutely right about what used to be called "paperwork" is now online. When I just bought my Rubicon, I had the same experience of the paperless transaction; just sign with the "magic" pen about 50 times and the dealer hands you all the information on a flash drive.

In my case, the dealer screwed up since I had a tag to transfer from an old Durango I had sold earlier in the week. A new tag costs more in Florida; transferring a tag is much less expensive. When the finance guy saw that an error had been made, he said we(the dealer) will just have to eat the extra cost of a new tag. The guy just walked out of the room for a minute and came back with a shiny new tag. That was it. (Then I thought later about the line on their contract for a "private agency fee" for $200 or something which we have here in Florida if you don't want to go to a county office). Just another add-on fee for the dealer.

So people here have to understand why (at least in FL) that it is better to negotiate the OTD price or end up in a maize of fees and costs.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

You are absolutely right about what used to be called "paperwork" is now online. When I just bought my Rubicon, I had the same experience of the paperless transaction; just sign with the "magic" pen about 50 times and the dealer hands you all the information on a flash drive.

In my case, the dealer screwed up since I had a tag to transfer from an old Durango I had sold earlier in the week. A new tag costs more in Florida; transferring a tag is much less expensive. When the finance guy saw that an error had been made, he said we(the dealer) will just have to eat the extra cost of a new tag. The guy just walked out of the room for a minute and came back with a shiny new tag. That was it. (Then I thought later about the line on their contract for a "private agency fee" for $200 or something which we have here in Florida if you don't want to go to a county office). Just another add-on fee for the dealer.

So people here have to understand why (at least in FL) that it is better to negotiate the OTD price or end up in a maize of fees and costs.

The days of a back room filled with papers and files and cabinets is pretty much over. Even the IRS has gotten THAT far! LOL

Everything is pretty much paperless. And it's court-accepted.
I know - I was head of technology and communications (as well as building and grounds/properties) for On With Life, Inc.
I am the one that took them from paper records to digital back in the 1990s. And you didn't have to keep all of those papers. At that time the building wasn't all that large and they needed a way to keep records, including meeting notes, diagnosis and more, digitally. This is 35 freakin' years later - the courts accepted such things as being as valid and safe as paper back then.
When I was at PFG (Principal Financial Group), yes, they had all of those shelves packed with years of papers and yes, they had secure shredding - but I didn't state why I was in that room along with all of that stuff.......... I was a network person, running the cables, connecting servers, scanners and so on as - again, in the 1990s, they were going digital and destroying all of those paper records. Digital storage takes a lot less space, and you can also mirror the records to a secure site so if the business is blown to bits, the records still exist on a mirrored server.
The days of keeping years of paper records is long over.
FCA has a process for testing batteries - guess what one of the requirements is........
It's that the equipment must be connected back to FCA so that the test results go to them as quick as they come through on the equipment. They don't need to print and send in a copy of the test results. That way there is an instant record, with the BAR CODE from the battery (the first thing they must do is scan the codes on the battery). So on the spot, it can be approved or denied and FCA/Jeep has a record of the test and results.
No, there's no more of this handling paper and 5 people having to touch a form, making sure it gets from office to office. It's instant, it's on their computer, and it reduces the human costs involved. That's how it is. No more paper shuffling. Funny thing - when I "deal" with my sales guy - there are no notes being carried to some other office, the manager sees what's going on as it's going on, via the computer. The only paper involved is when Scott asks "would you like a copy of this" then he has to walk across the showroom floor to a printer in some room somewhere.
No one handles papers these days - at least not where I've worked or dealt. And there's no big deal about "multiple people handle......." because Jeep gets the orders directly, and it's all kept on servers in the cloud and shared with anyone needing it. If they need to show some records, it's a few keystrokes, not paper.
Probably AWS for the servers and storage?

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

The days of a back room filled with papers and files and cabinets is pretty much over. Even the IRS has gotten THAT far! LOL

Everything is pretty much paperless. And it's court-accepted.
I know - I was head of technology and communications (as well as building and grounds/properties) for On With Life, Inc.
I am the one that took them from paper records to digital back in the 1990s. And you didn't have to keep all of those papers. At that time the building wasn't all that large and they needed a way to keep records, including meeting notes, diagnosis and more, digitally. This is 35 freakin' years later - the courts accepted such things as being as valid and safe as paper back then.
When I was at PFG (Principal Financial Group), yes, they had all of those shelves packed with years of papers and yes, they had secure shredding - but I didn't state why I was in that room along with all of that stuff.......... I was a network person, running the cables, connecting servers, scanners and so on as - again, in the 1990s, they were going digital and destroying all of those paper records. Digital storage takes a lot less space, and you can also mirror the records to a secure site so if the business is blown to bits, the records still exist on a mirrored server.
The days of keeping years of paper records is long over.
FCA has a process for testing batteries - guess what one of the requirements is........
It's that the equipment must be connected back to FCA so that the test results go to them as quick as they come through on the equipment. They don't need to print and send in a copy of the test results. That way there is an instant record, with the BAR CODE from the battery (the first thing they must do is scan the codes on the battery). So on the spot, it can be approved or denied and FCA/Jeep has a record of the test and results.
No, there's no more of this handling paper and 5 people having to touch a form, making sure it gets from office to office. It's instant, it's on their computer, and it reduces the human costs involved. That's how it is. No more paper shuffling. Funny thing - when I "deal" with my sales guy - there are no notes being carried to some other office, the manager sees what's going on as it's going on, via the computer. The only paper involved is when Scott asks "would you like a copy of this" then he has to walk across the showroom floor to a printer in some room somewhere.
No one handles papers these days - at least not where I've worked or dealt. And there's no big deal about "multiple people handle......." because Jeep gets the orders directly, and it's all kept on servers in the cloud and shared with anyone needing it. If they need to show some records, it's a few keystrokes, not paper.
Probably AWS for the servers and storage?

Someone "touching it" nowadays means they were involved somehow. They aren't touching paper or moving files. They're preparing forms, reviewing forms, scanning forms, electronically filing forms, submitting forms to appropriate agencies, etc. In the case of selling a car, it's not a 1 or 2 person job from start to finish.

 

[OldButStillJeeping]

OTD does not mean anything to most people as everybody has different trade in, down payment and tax differences.

OTD doesn't mean anything to the uninformed. OTD means everything to informed. It doesn't matter what your trade in offer is or down payment is, YOU TALK OTD price before any of that. If they give you a finance benefit for a higher down payment or higher trade in value, that is negotiable. But the deal the buyer wants to concentrate on is OTD.

If your credit is 500's than you have no bargaining power. But If you own a home and aren't strapped by bills.... it is all about OTD price.

The dealers like to push monthly payment to the uninformed. And to those that MUST have this Jeep. Fools are born everyday.

Those who are established, use OTD price.

My example here is I discussed OTD, cash price, with the dealer on my 2021 Mojave. And / or OTD and I finance it thru my own bank. The dealer will make money on financing so they will bend over backwards to have you finance through them. OTD starts to seem better to the dealer.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

My point is still being missed. It's a business cost - cost of doing business. HOW they recover that is a lot of psychology or even set in law.
They make it part of the lowest price they will negotiate, or take it off in what they offer in trade, or as a "document fee" or a part of both. It's psychology to a large degree - yeah, we give you a hell of a discount! our prices are lower than anyone! Then - they recover some of that in the doc fees.
It's not really that many involved - I don't know where people believe there's a whole lot of people in the background going over everything. Yes, it's more than 1 or two, but these days, it's minimized - and the costs go into the equipment, saving "human costs". They still pay for it somehow - in the prices, the trade-in allowances, or document fees or other sale line items.
It's psychology - and people are totally skipping that bit and defending the fees as "absolutely necessity". If it's that cut and dried- then why do some not charge it at all, not a penny as a doc fee line item, others charge a couple hundred, and others over 500? Are their costs that much higher? Or, are they using redirection?
Those who don't discount so much typically have lower "doc fees" while those with deep discounts and banner ads may have triple the doc fees.
It's all the same cost of doing business, they are just making their money for the computers, servers, storage and people either in the vehicle price, or a line item.
I say "smoke and mirrors" because that's what some of the deep discounters are doing - huge discounts, lower advertised prices of anyone - and their pay for staff and computers comes as a line item - document fees.
Anyone in sales knows how that works - killer of a deal on the price, but they MUST make money, they MUST pay their staff, and FCA insists on certain other things - how to give such deep discounts but still pay the staff so they can pay their grocery bill? It's got to come from somewhere.
Some use document fees to cover that, others do not - seriously, some dealerships don't charge such fees - but they still must pay staff. So a document fee isn't really necessary - they get it elsewhere.
That's my point - but everyone is totally skipping over that with "but...but....but, all of those people".

 

[Hootbro]

OTD doesn't mean anything to the uninformed. OTD means everything to informed. It doesn't matter what your trade in offer is or down payment is, YOU TALK OTD price before any of that. If they give you a finance benefit for a higher down payment or higher trade in value, that is negotiable. But the deal the buyer wants to concentrate on is OTD.

If your credit is 500's than you have no bargaining power. But If you own a home and aren't strapped by bills.... it is all about OTD price.

The dealers like to push monthly payment to the uninformed. And to those that MUST have this Jeep. Fools are born everyday.

Those who are established, use OTD price.

My example here is I discussed OTD, cash price, with the dealer on my 2021 Mojave. And / or OTD and I finance it thru my own bank. The dealer will make money on financing so they will bend over backwards to have you finance through them. OTD starts to seem better to the dealer.

That is all fine and dandy but has nothing to do with what I replied to the OP and what he stated.

I have said it before, when people here post a OTD price, it means nothing to most people "here" if it is not itemized out.

Anything that is going to be a tax or state fee add on is not negotiable or controllable other than controlling the taxable final costs they are derived from.

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

My point is still being missed. It's a business cost - cost of doing business. HOW they recover that is a lot of psychology or even set in law....

I agree with you on this.

It’s a cost of doing business they have to pass on somehow....

...They still pay for it somehow - in the prices, the trade-in allowances, or document fees or other sale line items. It's psychology - and people are totally skipping that bit and defending the fees as "absolutely necessity"....

They are a necessity as you started your post with. It doesn't matter how they charge them or disguise them.

...That's my point - but everyone is totally skipping over that with "but...but....but, all of those people".

My point with all the people is being paperless doesn't change the number of people needed. You said:

...No, there's no more of this handling paper and 5 people having to touch a form, making sure it gets from office to office. It's instant, it's on their computer, and it reduces the human costs involved. That's how it is...

That piece of paper doesn't move to 5 offices for the heck of it. 5 different people are doing 5 different things with it.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

They are a necessity as you started your post with. It doesn't matter how they charge them or disguise them.

The demands placed on some of these dealerships "by the company" is just crazy. The cost of their remodeling, the new office layout, new equipment......... one wonders how they make it through slow times. They still have to have the staff there, even if they sell one vehicle in 2 days, doesn't matter.
Then I think back to a year before Covid when we were in a Chevy dealership and there was a lot of chatting and talking and whispering going on by the coffee pots.......
A lady from the used car lot next door walked to the new car showroom to get coffee - apparently their pot was broken or whatever.
She's getting her coffee, about to walk back across the property to the used car building and a guy comes up to her and wants to talk to her about new Corvettes. She tries to get a new car sales person for the guy but he said no, you are here, I'll deal with you. OK, so they talk a bit and he says he wants to buy - Corvette convertible - THREE of them, cash purchase. They are being bought as gifts.
I bet that lady was the talk of both sides of the business for a long time to come. The one we saw in the showroom he was referring to had an MSRP of over $120,000.
And then of course the lean times........ it's a tough business to be in. You have to make it while you can, sort of like construction in Iowa - you have nothing coming in during the winter, have to make it when you can to get through those lean times.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Speaking of 2025 Mojave X (and also because I really think I, and a couple others here, are on the same pages, just that it comes out differently) - got curious and found this -

From my sales guy minutes ago -

Vehicle is built, going through inspection, should start shipping soon. I'll let you know when I have more information.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

UPDATE - talked to my sales guy. He said it came back from the MOPAR accessories area (maybe for bedliner, etc.?) and is in inspection - final phase.

And - he got the build sheet and the build sheet clearly shows SelecTrac under the X package options. It definitely has it.
Window sticker not available yet, but according to him - expect the truck within the next 2 weeks.
Man, I gotta SCRAMBLE.

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