4xe TEST DRIVE

[kelkolb]

I would urge some of the skeptics in here to watch this video
Are Teslas Actually Better For The Environment? - YouTube

There are plenty of issues with battery manufacturing and recycling, but let's not pretend that ICE engines are perfect. Considering electric vehicles are in their infancy, there is zero doubt that they'll be far superior to ICE with better infrastructure, battery technology, mining, and recycling methods.

Personally, I'm all about the PHEV's for now. Amazing power and some cheap electric only miles for commuting. Now, once there's an all electric wrangler or Gladiator, I'll be all over it. Can you imagine individual motors on each wheel? No transfer case, no diff, no lockers, no ICE maintenance etc. Sounds like a dream.

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[TheSolarWizard]

THERES A METRIC TON OF INCORRECT INFO ON THIS THREAD.

a plug in hybrid works just like any other hybrid, except that it has the option to drive X amount of miles on e juice only

the hp/tq numbers are provided with the assumption of 20% State of Charge in the battery. That’s where it should bottom out typically but if you’re towing, those figures will fall.

a hybrid runs of gas and electricity

50 MPGe is not, can not and will not ever mean 50 miles per gallon of gas. Not in a Jeep. MPGe is a measure of efficiency of electric or plug in hybrid drive systems.

Jeep has plans for lots of chargers in lots of places. I’m certain of this however I can’t relay where or the timelines

im happy to answer any other questions
im quallified to do so

 

[Firestarter]

@Firestarter
It has more torque, but it also weights substantially more. Nearly 800 lbs more. Instead of a torque converter it has a clutch iirc which means no torque multiplication from the converter, but it allows it to run 100% on electricity and the electric motor should compensate for the converter missing.

The website states the electric motor can run by itself for 21 miles at highway speeds and that it gets 48-50 mpg. It definitely isn't getting that on a trail. The website states the range is longer than rhe rest of the fleet. But with gas tank carrying 5 gallons less and a hard day on a trail how much more if any are we talking about? I wonder what the mileage would be after mods like steel front bumper, winch, lift 35s, etc.

My friend has a Tesla and she told me that she can't even take it to an automatic car wash because it could fry the electronics (in so many words). I (now) know 4xe isn't fully electric, but I would still think long and hard about submerging it in water.

I googled 4xe fuel economy in hybrid mode and saw that it's 20mpg. So it's not worth it as a hybrid for me, but the power is cool and extra 20 miles of cheap range is nice. https://www.greencarreports.com/new...rangler 4xe also gets,as far in electric mode.

I go to an automated carwash once a week and have a subscription. I see Teslas there all the time. Even the "hand" carwashes around here have an automated washer. Tesla batteries are sealed for active cooling and are submerged in fluid including the electronic speed controller.

I'd imagine the hybrid doesn't do shit for MPG on trails. IDK about you, but I'm not riding my brakes too often to charge the thing. I'd be worried about the electrical pack being depleted and having to abuse the computer controlled clutch with the gas engine by itself. With a torque converter, you can literally load up a wheel and squeeze the pedal slowly until it builds enough torque to overcome the obstacle. This is extremely abusive to clutches.

 

[Mkcagle]

I wish we had a laugh button on post. ?

 

[OrangeTJ]

I would urge some of the skeptics in here to watch this video
Now, once there's an all electric wrangler or Gladiator, I'll be all over it. Can you imagine individual motors on each wheel? No transfer case, no diff, no lockers, no ICE maintenance etc. Sounds like a dream.

No question a Jeep-shaped vehicle presents unique challenges to the efficiency currently needed to extract a lot of range from a battery pack. And it is absolutely true that electric power is not currently well-adapted for some use cases, such as extended overlanding where you are away from possible charging sources for days on end. However, based on my own personal experience with our dual motor Tesla in a range of weather conditions including snow, and how I personally use vehicles (commuting, around town, trips to the woods, etc.) I'd be ALL over a Jeep that offered that level of instantaneous, smooth, and incredibly controlled power. Combine that with the simplicity (relatively speaking) of an electric powertrain and the resulting minimal maintenance requirement and you could have a truly incredible machine.

 

[red/green hawk]

You believed that?

Why wouldn't I?

I don't get why people get their panties in a wad over others being skeptical of new tech? It's not my job to believe a manufacturer's claim about a new product. It's their job to convince me it does what they say it will do. This is still (for now) a free market system. Me asking questions and pointing out perceived flaws should be welcomed so they can be adressed as legit or not. Shutting down questioning and forcing stuff into the market for no other reason than "because" isn't a free market it's totalitarianism.

6 months ago you wouldn't've caught me dead inside a Tesla. My friend's willingness to address my ill perceived prejudices as an opportunity to educate as opposed to denigrate really won me over to seeing Teslas as a legitimate car. I still wouldn't buy one but I think they are a great car. And besides any car that can play DMX's "Get Out the Way Bitch" when honking the horn is bad ass.

 

[Tuggernuts]

Keep in mind…the largest lithium car battery manufacturer in the world is CHINESE.

Two ways to get lithium

Extraction Process:
The lithium extraction process uses a lot of water—approximately 500,000 gallons per metric ton of lithium. To extract lithium, miners drill a hole in salt flats and pump salty, mineral-rich brine to the surface. After several months the water evaporates, leaving a mixture of manganese, potassium, borax and lithium salts which is then filtered and placed into another evaporation pool. After between 12 and 18 months of this process, the mixture is filtered sufficiently that lithium carbonate can be extracted. Dead animals and fish are already being found after coming into contact with the waste from this process.

Open Pit Mining
Open pit mining is conducted in among other places including the U.S. A. is Australia, Africa and South America.

Removing the lithium from the ore is done with the industrial economy’s dissolver of choice, the notoriously corrosive and toxic SULFURIC ACID. Let me ask just where the used Acids are going to be dumped….. I know where, in those deep, deep, open pit mines where the thousands of tons of ore were mined… that’s where. In addition, the making of a lithium car battery pack includes the use of:

• Epoxy
• Urethane
• Silicone
• Acrylic
• Polyester
• Copper
• Nickle
• Lead
• Tin
• Aluminum

Additionally, the Housing will consist of plastics like:

• PVC
• PET
• Polystyrene

As an example:

• Lithium brines typically contain less than 0.1% lithium, so that entails some 25,000 pounds of brines to get the 25 pounds of pure lithium.(d)

Cobalt ore grades average about 0.1%, thus nearly 30,000 pounds of ore.(e)

Nickel ore grades average about 1%, thus about 6,000 pounds of ore.(f)

Graphite ore is typically 10%, thus about 1,000 pounds per battery.(g)

Copper at about 0.6% in the ore, thus about 25,000 pounds of ore per battery.(h)

In total then, acquiring just these five elements to produce the 1,000-pound EV battery requires mining about 90,000 pounds of ore. To properly account for all of the earth moved though—which is relevant to the overall environmental footprint, and mining machinery energy use—one needs to estimate the overburden, or the materials first dug up to get to the ore. Depending on ore type and location, overburden ranges from about 3 to 20 tons of earth removed to access each ton of ore.(i)

This means that accessing about 90,000 pounds of ore requires digging and moving between 200,000 and over 1,500,000 pounds of earth—a rough average of more than 500,000 pounds per battery. The precise number will vary for different battery chemistry formulations, and because different regions have widely variable ore grades. It bears noting that this total material footprint does not include the large quantities of materials and chemicals used to process and refine all the various ores. Nor have we counted other materials used when compared with a conventional car, such as replacing steel with aluminum to offset the weight penalty of the battery, or the supply chain for rare earth elements used in electric motors (e.g., neodymium, dysprosium).(j) Also excluded from this tally: the related, but non-battery, electrical systems in an EV use some 300% more overall copper used compared with a conventional automobile.

Jeep and the Chinese, can just keep their battery operated junk.

I think this is the most important post on this thread. The 4xe is cool and all but if you think it’s better for the environment, think again.

 

[Terminus33]

I did some research on the subject and apparently the reason dealerships don’t recommend the car washes is because you have to disable all of the sensors on the car [there are a LOT] before you can go through... but the electronic components are perfectly fine going through a car wash. Currently the only thing left to be a nuisance is that I guess you can’t turn off the automatic windshield wipers. I’m looking into this because I have a Tesla arriving next month so I’m legitimately curious.

You would think Tesla would be smart enough to have a "carwash" mode that would disable everything for you in a one button routine. Easy carwash mode, only enabled in neutral with engine on and E-brake off. Put it in drive and a minute later all the bells and whistles turn back on.

 

[Dqban]

Batteries may not be the only option...just the next.

Toyota is heavily pushing hydrogen. Europe has a mich more robist hydrogen infrastructure than we do. Toyota is also pushing a dolid state battery the claim to have developed.

Some companies are exploring super capacitors...but those only work in theory so far.

Porsche really does not want an electric 911...they have already made a clean burning petrol alternative, just not able to produce in large quantity yet....if they figure it out the infrastructure (gas stations) are alread in place

 

[mike921921]

Well ok,, but it’s rolling on 20’s from the factory!! That makes it worth the money right there. It’s a bargain at $51,543!

And - a locking fuel door!

 

[Sazabi19]

This is the thing that is totally lost on most people. Lithium mining is one of the most environmentally destroying endeavors there is. That electricity to charge these cars comes from good old fashioned, smoke belching, coal burning power plants. That said I'm all for saving money. Show me Jeep truck that can save me money on gas that justifies and makes up for the higher cost over a short period of time and I'll seriously think about it.

Ok, I keep seeing this and it's not fully true. Please stop negating our cleaner burning power plants like nuke plants and natural gas. Yes we have plenty of coal plants still but some of them are cleaner. I wish we would go full nuke here but you know every idiot will crawl out from their holes and talk about how dangerous they are. We're 1 of the few first world countries that hasn't transitioned to mostly nuke plants yet, annoying.

My big prob isn't the coal plants, it's the super tired aging electric grid. It's just not going to sustain rapid growth. It's needed a massive overhaul for years but the project has never been undertaken.

 

[Dqban]

Electricity in the future is likely to become less centralized. California already has laws in place mandating every new construction produce a certain amount of their own energy. (there is more to the law but that's the gist of it.) It will only be time before every house built is required to have X amount of solar and/or wind electrical generation.

The electricity used to charge your electric car will likely come from the solid-state battery hanging on your wall in the garage that was charged the other solar cells on your roof......this is Tesla's plan/goal

Totally agree with nuclear...cant wait till they perfect the fusion reactor..... if only somebody could discover dilithium crystals!!

 

[Sazabi19]

@Firestarter
It has more torque, but it also weights substantially more. Nearly 800 lbs more. Instead of a torque converter it has a clutch iirc which means no torque multiplication from the converter, but it allows it to run 100% on electricity and the electric motor should compensate for the converter missing.

The website states the electric motor can run by itself for 21 miles at highway speeds and that it gets 48-50 mpg. It definitely isn't getting that on a trail. The website states the range is longer than rhe rest of the fleet. But with gas tank carrying 5 gallons less and a hard day on a trail how much more if any are we talking about? I wonder what the mileage would be after mods like steel front bumper, winch, lift 35s, etc.

My friend has a Tesla and she told me that she can't even take it to an automatic car wash because it could fry the electronics (in so many words). I (now) know 4xe isn't fully electric, but I would still think long and hard about submerging it in water.

That's 48-50MPGe <-- Don't forget that "e"! that's the mileage you get with an electric charge only. once that is gone you go down to the reg 20+mgp of the 4cyl.

PS VERY IMPORTANT FOR ALL OF US TO THINK ABOUT

WORLD MARKETS WILL PROBABLY BRING WORLD PEACE... for the most part.

All countries are struggling with crisis and pushback from citizens of those countries.

Stop thinking just locally, always do what you can to push for peace and the American values, but you need to also listen... read... study that will alleviate some fear. Social media and the news media do not typically favor peace and prosperity. Their prosperity (measured by $$/ power /greed)

WE MUST SEEK OUT THE TRUTH IN ALL MEDIA. WE NEED TO STOP BEING PART OF THE MACHINE. BE A PART OF THE SOLUTION TOGETHER.

All my wut dude. World markets will bring peace to the world? Think globally? Stop being part of the machine? lol. I think you're far more entrenched in the machine than you know. Is this a Chinese propaganda account? Can we check on this? :P

Electricity in the future is likely to become less centralized. California already has laws in place mandating every new construction produce a certain amount of their own energy. (there is more to the law but that's the gist of it.) It will only be time before every house built is required to have X amount of solar and/or wind electrical generation.

The electricity used to charge your electric car will likely come from the solid-state battery hanging on your wall in the garage that was charged the other solar cells on your roof......this is Tesla's plan/goal

Totally agree with nuclear...cant wait till they perfect the fusion reactor..... if only somebody could discover dilithium crystals!!

Would be nice if we could run off the hot air of media/politicians/actors.

 

[red/green hawk]

My big prob isn't the coal plants, it's the super tired aging electric grid. It's just not going to sustain rapid growth. It's needed a massive overhaul for years but the project has never been undertaken.

Well now we're speaking the same language. I would suggest there's a specific reason, mostly political, why the grid hasn't been updated along with nuc plants. But it's undeniable, "renewable" energy is a fraction of what is being consumed on the grid. Fossil fuels still rule the day so whether it's clean coal or not the fact remains that these cars that are saving the planet still rely on the energy source that is supposedly destroying the earth.

 

[Sazabi19]

Well now we're speaking the same language. I would suggest there's a specific reason, mostly political, why the grid hasn't been updated along with nuc plants. But it's undeniable, "renewable" energy is a fraction of what is being consumed on the grid. Fossil fuels still rule the day so whether it's clean coal or not the fact remains that these cars that are saving the planet still rely on the energy source that is supposedly destroying the earth.

Fully agree, wish we would transition. Anyone who owns a hybrid/electric car to save on gas, good for them. Anyone who owns 1 to "save the Earth" isn't worth the oxygen cycle their wasting on every breath.

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