Bubbling paint !

[ShadowsPapa]

Mine is a 2020. I can say from detailing it every year I do not remember ever seeing it to this extent. One back hinge ( from the body ) was a little rough but it appears more wide spread and the others outer hinged sections were smooth. I have an appointment this week so I will find out. Right after I ordered some new upgrade parts.

OK, so you had a baseline to compare to - they weren't this bad (or at all) in the past.
The pattern is weird looking at it on a different screen - not like drips or sags or runs.
Aluminum takes different care to prep for paint, and it oxidizes very fast unless treated.

Looks like the AL panels and parts didn't get treated properly. Door panels, hood, and hinges are all AL.

Or are the hinges an alloy, even of magnesium? I would have figured they'd have come up with a better hinge material since this sort of thing has gone on for over a decade........

And - there is a law suit covering 2020 and 2021 mode Gladiators as well as Wranglers for this exact thing...... but it's more about this - rust, weird. That has to be the PIN rusting, aluminum doesn't rust.

There's a TSB about the corrosion and bubbling -

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[Kilroy1941]

I can confirm mine is 100% corrosion after seeing the Dealership. They said they just did two Gladiators and have four more 21s and a 22 ahead of me. Now I have to just stare at it until December..

Update: I was speaking to my father about it as we looked at the truck and he said " you mean like this on the hood hinges and around them " my heart just sank. Yes...the stupid hood hinges and the hood have the start of it. This may be the end for her.

R.I.P. I looked elsewhere as I waxed today...under the hood edges, driver door inside lip, passenger rear door and front inner lip. I am not going to repaint almost all of the vehicle and not even get a loaner just for this to keep happening. I loved this thing but I think Jeep topped ford this time with bad aluminum prep.

 

[s alex]

My previous 2016 JKUR had the exact same thing ( bubbles) on all 4 hinges after a year.

 

[tbaker]

I just noticed yesterday the paint around the bottom of the hood hinges is coming off I may get some hinge
covers to try and hide that but that’s the only place I have noticed the paint coming off

 

[XJFanatic]

It sucks, but it very common. There is a hundred plus page thread on the JL forum. It’s galvanic corrosion caused by dissimilar aluminum door panels against a steel hinge.

My JT has 32k on it and none that I can find. My JLU has 42k on it and has it on 3 doors, the tailgate and the hood. I am calling this week to make an appointment to start the process on it.

Both are 2020s

 

[ShadowsPapa]

It’s galvanic corrosion caused by dissimilar aluminum door panels against a steel hinge.

Actually, as I explained in another thread on this topic - it's not galvanic action. That requires both pieces be in contact with each other and with water at the same time. And then, the action takes place only where they contact each other.
I laid out the science behind it along with quotes from science sites so won't duplicate all of that here........... but bubbling like seen in some of these photos isn't galvanic - it's happening where there is no contact with another metal.

Aluminum is more active than steel so would be lost before steel.

It is also my understanding that there is a barrier between the hinge and the door skin, and at least on the hood hinges, the bolts are insulated from the hinges.

Trailer builders have used steel and aluminum together for decades.

 

[XJFanatic]

Actually, as I explained in another thread on this topic - it's not galvanic action. That requires both pieces be in contact with each other and with water at the same time. And then, the action takes place only where they contact each other.
I laid out the science behind it along with quotes from science sites so won't duplicate all of that here........... but bubbling like seen in some of these photos isn't galvanic - it's happening where there is no contact with another metal.

Aluminum is more active than steel so would be lost before steel.

It is also my understanding that there is a barrier between the hinge and the door skin, and at least on the hood hinges, the bolts are insulated from the hinges.

Trailer builders have used steel and aluminum together for decades.

I have seen a few of these apart and it’s definitely raw steel and aluminum under the hinges. In fact on my granite JT you can see some where paint failed reach during the process at the factory.

I will try to find some of the higher mileage JL pics the corrosion on the aluminum door can be seen starting under the removed steel hinge and creeping out.

Maybe it’s galvanic maybe not, but it’s silly to think that metal on metal with no barrier wouldn’t hold moisture.

One anecdotal thing on my two I noticed is the JL was a rental and washed regularly from a non salt belt state. The JT was obviously not washed regularly and from the salt belt. So it could be some sort of reaction between aluminum and the cleaning chemicals. Maybe it pays to leave them dirty like a well used Jeep ??‍

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I have seen a few of these apart and it’s definitely raw steel and aluminum under the hinges. In fact on my granite JT you can see some where paint failed reach during the process at the factory.

I will try to find some of the higher mileage JL pics the corrosion on the aluminum door can be seen starting under the removed steel hinge and creeping out.

Maybe it’s galvanic maybe not, but it’s silly to think that metal on metal with no barrier wouldn’t hold moisture.

One anecdotal thing on my two I noticed is the JL was a rental and washed regularly from a non salt belt state. The JT was obviously not washed regularly and from the salt belt. So it could be some sort of reaction between aluminum and the cleaning chemicals. Maybe it pays to leave them dirty like a well used Jeep ??‍

Galvanic reactions require direct contact, and water. The destruction will happen at the place of contact, not out on the meat or face of the hinge like some have shown. So if the door skin is being eaten away or there's rust at the very very edge of the hinge where the door skin is - then it's possible.
Whatever's going on, the complaints as of late seem to be bubbling on the face of the hinge or where the hinge pin is. That's covered in paint and not touching the door skin. Sounds more like an improper paint prep in those cases.

Aluminum is among the top active metals - however, because it is so active, pure raw aluminum almost instantly oxidizes and forms a protective film over itself and prevents further oxidation. You can take aluminum stock and it will turn gray, but that's it - it isn't going to rot away. It protects itself.

Sounds like two different things going on - the bubbling paint on the face of the hinge is not galvanic.
Destruction BETWEEN the door skin and hinge - likely is. HOWEVER, Jeep put isolating pads in and bolt isolators to resolve galvanic destruction.

2016 Jeep changed the Wrangler hinges to include a silver isolator pad.

Here's the pad I refer to -

And here's how there's a gap between the hinge and the door skin - the pad sets the hinge out extremely slightly (only takes a couple ten thousandths of an inch, I have the spec somewhere in my metals stuff)
The change was made, I believe, for the 2016 model year.
Both of my Gladiators showed the isolators were present - even around the bolts on the hood hinges. Wrangler people talk of these pads coming with factory hinges.
Now the gap on mine - there's no direct contact.

Looks like an isolator to me...........

Gap showing pad in place between hinge and door skin -

Hinge and door skin don't touch - there's supposed to be a silver isolator pad -

I've been through chemistry and currently do metal restoration and plating.

I did this page in the mid-90s on reversing rust -
https://antique-engines.com/electrol.asp

(for those who want their Jeep bolts and nuts to not rust - I plate in zinc - yellow, black or clear/blue)

 

[XJFanatic]

Galvanic reactions require direct contact, and water. The destruction will happen at the place of contact, not out on the meat or face of the hinge like some have shown. So if the door skin is being eaten away or there's rust at the very very edge of the hinge where the door skin is - then it's possible.
Whatever's going on, the complaints as of late seem to be bubbling on the face of the hinge or where the hinge pin is. That's covered in paint and not touching the door skin. Sounds more like an improper paint prep in those cases.

Aluminum is among the top active metals - however, because it is so active, pure raw aluminum almost instantly oxidizes and forms a protective film over itself and prevents further oxidation. You can take aluminum stock and it will turn gray, but that's it - it isn't going to rot away. It protects itself.

Sounds like two different things going on - the bubbling paint on the face of the hinge is not galvanic.
Destruction BETWEEN the door skin and hinge - likely is. HOWEVER, Jeep put isolating pads in and bolt isolators to resolve galvanic destruction.

2016 Jeep changed the Wrangler hinges to include a silver isolator pad.

Here's the pad I refer to -

And here's how there's a gap between the hinge and the door skin - the pad sets the hinge out extremely slightly (only takes a couple ten thousandths of an inch, I have the spec somewhere in my metals stuff)
The change was made, I believe, for the 2016 model year.
Both of my Gladiators showed the isolators were present - even around the bolts on the hood hinges. Wrangler people talk of these pads coming with factory hinges.
Now the gap on mine - there's no direct contact.

Looks like an isolator to me...........

Gap showing pad in place between hinge and door skin -

Hinge and door skin don't touch - there's supposed to be a silver isolator pad -

I've been through chemistry and currently do metal restoration and plating.

I did this page in the mid-90s on reversing rust -
https://antique-engines.com/electrol.asp

(for those who want their Jeep bolts and nuts to not rust - I plate in zinc - yellow, black or clear/blue)

I don’t disagree that much of it has to due with poor prep. I understand the chemistry of it, I have a bachelors in forensic chemistry.

The OP pics clearly show what we are agreeing to as most likely galvanic corrosion. Seeping out from the hinges.

Interesting about the gasket, it appears current builds and repaired ones are starting to show the gap. This was not part of the original design. See pic below. I got to go look at the JT/JL out front. Maybe it was a 2020 change ??

 

[XJFanatic]

Just checked it would appear neither of my 2020s have any gaskets. But the second to last pic clearly shows the a possibility poor paint spray though.

 

[XJFanatic]

And here is a 2021 snazzberry courtesy of the JL forum that appears to have a gasket. So it would appear the change happened at some point in the 20-21 transition.

 

[ALVagabond]

Science!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I understand the chemistry of it, I have a bachelors in forensic chemistry.

COOL! Love it (honest, not mocking at all, I enjoy that stuff and respect it. It's an area I have great interest in but am no pro for sure)

I can't/won't argue the dates - other than my November 2020 showed signs of having the isolators - and the Wrangler people (where I stole the one pic from LOL) said "2016 model year" and showed a 2015 with no isolator.
Their discussion as I recall (too long ago -all I recall was the year number) was that when someone posted that owned a 2016 asked if they'd have the same issue that the guy with the 2014 had, the response was "no".
Have I directly taken apart a 2015 Wrangler of either type, or a 2017, to compare? Nope. I guess I could sneak into my brother's garage tonight and tear his apart but then I'd get a call asking me for help putting it back together again and wondering how it came apart to begin with.

All I can say is that the Wrangler people "said 2016" and had photograph examples (as opposed to pornographic examples)

And - the photos of my own JTs, all two of them, showing the isolators and the pieces the bolts went through on the hood hinges.

Timing? I have no forensic proof.

We've seen the door skins, and the backs of the early hinges - we know what, and we know where galvanic action occurs and what it takes.
I think it's akin to the engine issues - same or similar symptoms with different causes.
And the exact location of the damage is a clue - the pics I've seen were where the hinge bulges out to form the area for the pin - a good half inch away from any metal with a difference in nobility.

For people wondering a bit more - open your hood, look at where the outer body panels the fenders attach to bolts to the steel structure of the body. Note the gap, and note what's hold them apart - plastic. Also note the size of the holes - not just for alignment of the panels, but to allow further isolation of the two metals. Jeep is very aware of how things work. They'd be total idiots not to! This has been an issue for as long as man has been building things using aluminum and steel - campers, car haulers/flat beds, livestock trailers, and more.
And all they had to do was send a spy to Ford to watch and learn.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

SUGGESTION, and that's all it is. It may be worth every penny you paid for it, even accounting for the non-existent inflation we all imagine.
They are mainly defect as related to safety people, but NHTSA has a place for people to complain.
This isn't a safety concern unless your hinges and door skins rot away and the doors fall off and hit someone riding their bike on the interstate, but it's a concern for quite a few apparently.
I did some digging and found nothing, no complaints about corrosion or rust on the NHTSA site.
I dug through several pages under 4 different years and models of Jeeps.
Not one single complaint about door skins or hinges or bubbling paint. I'm not saying there aren't any because I didn't find any - but I did a pretty good search. so if they are there, they are few.

Anyone who puts complaints there should not do what most others do - sound whiny, I'm gonna sue, someone's going to die, now I don't have a vehicle, I mean looks like a 4 year old wrote some of them. Be factual, make it like a business letter, or something you could take to your boss and not lose his respect.
Year, model, when it happened, how bad it is (and a 1/4" area isn't "the whole hinge!".
I can see why some of those complaints may get trash-canned at the car company.

 

[Summitsearcher]

Galvanic action does happen without isolating different metal but sometimes it’s also something as simple as moisture during the painting process. My brothers JL had the same on hood and hinges and it’s covered repair. I’m not going to worry about it. Frustrating? Yes. Should it happen? No. If it becomes a problem to repair, I’ll dump it and get another and start over once coverage ends. ?‍

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