Engine Pinging/Detonation

[jeepmojo]

I agree with last person who replied mine is god awful loud clacking I put high test 91 octane in today it helps . But mines a manual and it lugs on take off you can not take off with 3000 rpm’s though so as you let out your clutch it rattles badly in my manual . I’m filing lemon law as we speak. Due to the dealers working on it for six months at random times with no sign of resolution . I did not pay for a old clunker . I’d expect that of a 30 year old car not a brand new 50, 0000 dollar gladiator . No excuse it’s been doing it for full ownership it’s now six months and 17,000 miles of concern with out them really even trying to figure it out . Only I have determined all my issues . Dealerships don’t want to do shit . Just get the money for warranty work and shove it in the back where you can’t see it . Then hand it back with all the issues you came in with . People have to start busting their balls back . They treat us like a bunch of fools . When in fact it’s the mechanics at dealerships that are the fools . And Chrysler fiat stands behind them not us the consumer who handed over 50 +

Sponsored

 

[SelfmodJT]

I agree with last person who replied mine is god awful loud clacking I put high test 91 octane in today it helps . But mines a manual and it lugs on take off you can not take off with 3000 rpm’s though so as you let out your clutch it rattles badly in my manual . I’m filing lemon law as we speak. Due to the dealers working on it for six months at random times with no sign of resolution . I did not pay for a old clunker . I’d expect that of a 30 year old car not a brand new 50, 0000 dollar gladiator . No excuse it’s been doing it for full ownership it’s now six months and 17,000 miles of concern with out them really even trying to figure it out . Only I have determined all my issues . Dealerships don’t want to do shit . Just get the money for warranty work and shove it in the back where you can’t see it . Then hand it back with all the issues you came in with . People have to start busting their balls back . They treat us like a bunch of fools . When in fact it’s the mechanics at dealerships that are the fools . And Chrysler fiat stands behind them not us the consumer who handed over 50 +

I'm not saying it's not an issue or problem but I'm suprised the dealer is even looking at the issue because many have this problem and being told it's normal. I dont know how you would win the lemon law case because it says in the manual the engine may ping if I'm correct. But If your dealer is saying it's an issue and actually trying to fix it you may have a case. I also have this pinging but it's very short and intermittent so I'm just ignoring it because I have 3.5 more yrs to go on the factory warranty and 5.5 yrs on an extended warranty. If the engine blows at 75k or 99k miles, I get a new engine. I dont see an engine lasting 100k miles with constant pinging, if it does I'm sure by 100k miles it will be so bad that jeep or the extended warranty will have to replace the engine.

Honestly, I'm hoping the engine blows around 90k miles. I will take it to a shop and work a deal in to pay the shop the difference to put in a 392 or hemi ?

 

[jeepmojo]

I'm not saying it's not an issue or problem but I'm suprised the dealer is even looking at the issue because many have this problem and being told it's normal. I dont know how you would win the lemon law case because it says in the manual the engine may ping if I'm correct. But If your dealer is saying it's an issue and actually trying to fix it you may have a case. I also have this pinging but it's very short and intermittent so I'm just ignoring it because I have 3.5 more yrs to go on the factory warranty and 5.5 yrs on an extended warranty. If the engine blows at 75k or 99k miles, I get a new engine. I dont see an engine lasting 100k miles with constant pinging, if it does I'm sure by 100k miles it will be so bad that jeep or the extended warranty will have to replace the engine.

Honestly, I'm hoping the engine blows around 90k miles. I will take it to a shop and work a deal in to pay the shop the difference to put in a 392 or hemi ?

I’m filing lemon law due to all the repairs has decreased the value I’ve had rear axle seal &shaft , front axle coupler, wet front carpets for six months . Water pump replace , belt tensioner pully assembly , rear window replaced , popping clunk when in 4 wd and turn wheel slightly to right , I have a wobble in my harmonic balancer now to me looks like a wobble in the crank , had chirping noise for six months they throw parts and it comes back . The rattle on acceleration sounds like it’s lifters or somthing internal and a knock like a diesel motor to be frank then drives smooth as butter. But even then I hear a tink tink noise while I’m on highway too same thing I just put high test at 5.89 a U.S. gal in today it helps a lot on the rattle but it’s there it dosent magically disappear that’s for sure . And I’m not gonna pay for a faulty build from factory out of my pocket after already spending 50 grand. But nh arbitration allows the manufacturers a last chance to repair . I might just trade it if they say they will have my vehicle a while with me getting stuck in a rental . During the Covid epidemic . If I decide or I might just take them to superior court if I’m not satisfied . There not going to run me around like some foolish puppet any longer . Been on their string for six months of complete bullshit ! I’m done if they don’t resolve yeh I too will go buy a Toyota and build it , or something else idk . It’s not my first jeep I’ve had 2 before this ( new ones) my rubicon I had for 12 years . And jeep has never really given great customer relations . But I was a faithful jeep lover so I corrected their issues but I’m not doing it when it comes to rattles in motors they can kiss my @$$ and I know they won’t but I’ll be gone as a customer forever and I will spread the word and experience I’m having with this jeep truck for 50 grand and how they are treating me on every step . It’s like dealing with old mafia antics or snake in the grass car sales . It’s not gonna effect me long term I will go get another vehicle . But if I’m going down so will there reputation with every one I can tell . They can Stick that in their tail pipe . Problem is to many people fall in love like a dam fool with their jeep and that’s what jeep relies on and shortcuts us for . Well gigs up for me . I can live with out them just fine . But again they are not stuffing me with a old clunker with out a good fight on their hands if that’s how they treat it

 

[SelfmodJT]

? didnt know of the other issues, talk about bad luck. Well, I hope you get the buy back in your case.

 

[jeepmojo]

I didn’t create the problem they did . Then they act like The issues don’t exist Or they can’t duplicate . I have direct videos of it and what it does and I’ve showed the dealership and even they cringe and say yeh that ain’t good . It’s not a diesel engine . The service advisor even feels bad for me with all the issues but I filed bbb complaints on everyone . Like I said I would if they kept playing a game . So be it. . I could take back the bbb complaints but they don’t seem to care. So why should I . The gas the miles the agrivation for six months is beyond what any new vehicle buyer should experience . Every day waking up to a another day of misery because of their quality control issues . Wonder how they would like it if it were themselves ???? What goes around comes around. god knows all . I’ve been 100 % honest about the ordeal and more than patient of what any normal person should deal with in this situation .

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I'm not saying it's not an issue or problem but I'm suprised the dealer is even looking at the issue because many have this problem and being told it's normal. I dont know how you would win the lemon law case because it says in the manual the engine may ping if I'm correct. But If your dealer is saying it's an issue and actually trying to fix it you may have a case. I also have this pinging but it's very short and intermittent so I'm just ignoring it because I have 3.5 more yrs to go on the factory warranty and 5.5 yrs on an extended warranty. If the engine blows at 75k or 99k miles, I get a new engine. I dont see an engine lasting 100k miles with constant pinging, if it does I'm sure by 100k miles it will be so bad that jeep or the extended warranty will have to replace the engine.

Honestly, I'm hoping the engine blows around 90k miles. I will take it to a shop and work a deal in to pay the shop the difference to put in a 392 or hemi ?

One of the main brains behind the GM Northstar engine, a GM engineer for many years, had this to say - he's got some fantastic points that sort of rip up the "conventional wisdom" that I grew up with and so many with no engineering background claimed for decades.
He says they even forced the NS engine to ping, they designed it to live with it and in testing, they pushed it to its limits and made sure the pistons could survive under the loads of detonation.
What he does warn of is pre-ignition which is when the charge is lit BEFORE the spark.

Anyway, when I read his stuff and bring it into context with other materials I have - there's a pattern forming and he makes sense.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I didn’t create the problem they did . Then they act like The issues don’t exist Or they can’t duplicate . I have direct videos of it and what it does and I’ve showed the dealership and even they cringe and say yeh that ain’t good . It’s not a diesel engine . The service advisor even feels bad for me with all the issues but I filed bbb complaints on everyone . Like I said I would if they kept playing a game . So be it. . I could take back the bbb complaints but they don’t seem to care. So why should I . The gas the miles the agrivation for six months is beyond what any new vehicle buyer should experience . Every day waking up to a another day of misery because of their quality control issues . Wonder how they would like it if it were themselves ???? What goes around comes around. god knows all . I’ve been 100 % honest about the ordeal and more than patient of what any normal person should deal with in this situation .

They aren't going to consider the noises in lemon law. It doesn't make the vehicle unusable or unfit for its intended purposes. And in NH, it's arbitration, not court.
You'd have to prove it's devalued due to the rattle. And - what the cause of the noise is.


The Law
New Hampshire's "Lemon Law" (RSA 357-D) applies only to new vehicles purchased from New Hampshire dealerships. New Hampshire consumers who find themselves with a defective new vehicle that the dealer has been unable to repair may turn to the Motor Vehicle Arbitration Board (MVAB). The MVAB will decide whether the motor vehicle is so impaired by its defect that the manufacturer should take the vehicle back. The MVAB, a five-person panel of consumers, auto dealers and certified mechanics, has been in existence since January 1, 1992. The MVAB reviews consumer complaints about defective vehicles and holds evidentiary hearings which typically include inspecting and/or test driving the vehicle. If a majority of the panel members find that the vehicle is substantially impaired due to defects covered by the manufacturer's warranty, the board will order the manufacturer to either buy the "lemon" back from the consumer or, at the consumer's option, trade the "lemon" for another vehicle of equal value. The MVAB can also award "damages" which can include license and registration fees as well as the finance charges (interest) for the loan to purchase the defective vehicle. Either the consumer or manufacturer can appeal a MVAB decision to the Superior Court.

A vehicle is considered to be a "lemon" if:

The new vehicle is substantially impaired in use, value, or safety due to a defect covered by the manufacturer's warranty that the manufacturer or its authorized representative has not fixed.
In order to qualify for arbitration, a consumer must ordinarily show either:

The manufacturer or its representative has made at least three unsuccessful attempts to fix the motor vehicle; or
The motor vehicle has been out of service for 30 or more business days (cumulative) due to defects or nonconformities covered by the warranty.
Business days will be M-F

 

[jeepmojo]

They aren't going to consider the noises in lemon law. It doesn't make the vehicle unusable or unfit for its intended purposes. And in NH, it's arbitration, not court.
You'd have to prove it's devalued due to the rattle. And - what the cause of the noise is.


The Law
New Hampshire's "Lemon Law" (RSA 357-D) applies only to new vehicles purchased from New Hampshire dealerships. New Hampshire consumers who find themselves with a defective new vehicle that the dealer has been unable to repair may turn to the Motor Vehicle Arbitration Board (MVAB). The MVAB will decide whether the motor vehicle is so impaired by its defect that the manufacturer should take the vehicle back. The MVAB, a five-person panel of consumers, auto dealers and certified mechanics, has been in existence since January 1, 1992. The MVAB reviews consumer complaints about defective vehicles and holds evidentiary hearings which typically include inspecting and/or test driving the vehicle. If a majority of the panel members find that the vehicle is substantially impaired due to defects covered by the manufacturer's warranty, the board will order the manufacturer to either buy the "lemon" back from the consumer or, at the consumer's option, trade the "lemon" for another vehicle of equal value. The MVAB can also award "damages" which can include license and registration fees as well as the finance charges (interest) for the loan to purchase the defective vehicle. Either the consumer or manufacturer can appeal a MVAB decision to the Superior Court.

A vehicle is considered to be a "lemon" if:

The new vehicle is substantially impaired in use, value, or safety due to a defect covered by the manufacturer's warranty that the manufacturer or its authorized representative has not fixed.
In order to qualify for arbitration, a consumer must ordinarily show either:

The manufacturer or its representative has made at least three unsuccessful attempts to fix the motor vehicle; or
The motor vehicle has been out of service for 30 or more business days (cumulative) due to defects or nonconformities covered by the warranty.
Business days will be M-F

You can’t trade a vehicle in when it’s rattling and chirping like a old clunker and get its value that’s for certain in fact I can’t think of a dealer that would want to give you a good figure if they take it for a ride or hear the chirping of a wild turkey in mating season . And it does it and I have videos and clunks and service dept work orders and visits . But whatever I guess I won’t be buying another jeep product for certain . Who would if they work against you instead of resolve . I can do better than spend my life trying to fix factory f ups

 

[jeepmojo]

They will also be there and it will cost them to be there to go over the issues and evaluate the problem . Regardless Rather than be dicked around at a dealership and not really diagnosing ,what or where the problems stem from ! And how to resolve . And you also can reopen the case within a year from the time you filed . If the consumer is not satisfied. It can be appealed to superior court just for you information . So It seems like the right thing to do when your being jerked around .

 

[TimC]

Are dealers still hard-up for trade ins? They hardly looked at my trade, not that there were any issues but yours may get overlooked and you’ll be out of it.

 

[The Crusader]

I've always put in a bottle of RXP in the next fill up after oil changes. It does run better on that tank. I'm not sure if RXP can be used in diesels.

 

[jmdwifi]

Mine was absolutely having permature detonation. slight acceleration and light load. I was told here and by the dealer to live with it and its normal. Maybe but I didn't like it. I have run higher octane gas for a couple tankfuls and it made no difference. This time I decided to run it for tank fulls, then my curiosity would be relieved. I am on my ninth tank and have not heard it in weeks. I will run it for a couple more and go back to 87 and see if it comes back. Then I will take this information to the dealer. And they will not address it. I will drive it until it blows, then do a `Hemi swap I guess.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

permature detonation

Nitpicking, yes, but there's no such thing.
You have either: detonation
or
preignition.
(and a chance of preignition causing detonation)
but each is very different and different causes. To most they sound alike but detonation happens after the spark plug fires, preignition happens before - the charge is lit before the spark.
detonation can't be premature as it ALWAYS happens after the spark so being premature is just not possible.
I point out the differences because to someone trying to diagnose, a tech, me, a former tech/mechanic and so on, the exact problem and correct terms matter. If someone tells you it's premature anything or predetonation, you know right away they don't know what they are talking about so you don't want them working on your engine.


Now to what you are hearing -
If "premium" gas makes a difference, you have a problem. These have sensors and can tune the engine to avoid true pinging of any sort. They can run on 85 at higher altitudes and 87 outside of the mountains and high elevations, even towing thousands of pounds in heat and not ping for any reason. True ping in these is extremely rare. I've not been able to force mine to ping. It just won't. My 2020 couldn't be forced into it either.

Where you buy gas matters - the quality matters more than octane in these.
Buy top tier gas.
If you aren't buying top tier gas it's possible it's not the octane making a difference but the other contents of the gas.

If you have a manual transmission, you likely aren't actually hearing detonation.
Also if a manual transmission - try running the RPM up before shifting! These need to be wound up and not run at low RPM. Low RPM shifts are bad for these and lug or load them.
Wind it up. I run mine very often in the 3,000-4,000 range just because of our hills and entrance ramps and so on. It's an automatic and I hold the gas and keep the RPM up. Over 2500-3,000 rpm is pretty normal and good for the engine (not good for mpg but whatever. )

 

[JW Jeep]

I thought there was a service bulletin on this exact same thing for carbon build up ? I run 85 octane with no problems here in Colorado ( higher elevation )

 

[jmdwifi]

Ok, maybe I used the wrong term but octane resists preignition at higher temps, right? I have an automatic and because of what you said last time I heard you on this, I bought gas at the same place where I buy the 87 octane and they have good breakfast sandwiches. So to review, I have an automatic and same brand gas, just 91 octane instead of 87. I did put about three gallons of 93 in it a few tanks ago by accident but stopped. I wanted to try 91 first and if I still had the noise, go to 93. The sound is like the older cars that required high octane and would ping if you put 87 in them.

Sponsored