For Me, No More Wheeling at Large Events

[Jeremy P]

You seem to remember it much differently. You were spotting me? What a joke. Your were ordering me, while insulting my build at any chance you got. You were yelling at me out of the gate. You personally told me, before I said a word, that if I don’t listen to you, you’d leave me out there. I’m not going to stand here and watch you try to turn this around. I should have done it myself. I would have gotten out of there fine, and without the be you brought along with your so called help. Who gives a shit if I winched? Who gives a shit if I stacked rocks? If you’re the kind of person that finds that to be negative, you’re the reason I posted this. Tough trail no doubt. And I was having a great time until I became the scapegoat of the night. I was keeping up perfectly fine. Zero mechanical failures on my Jeep, which is more than I can say if multiple rigs on 40’s and larger. The night got long because of a several hour repair that ended around sunset. Not because I was on tiny 37” tires with a 5”+ lift. I lost two beads, and my own co2 got the first one seated. I very much appreciated the other one being lent on the second one. Who cares if I lost two beads! That’s part of wheeling on tough trails sometimes. The fact that you’re complaining about that and want some kind of award for helping get one reseated, when it was mostly someone else helping, says plenty about you. I’ve been on plenty of runs with breakage and lengthy repairs or recovery. It’s usually not mine. I’m the first person to pull out tools, and the first person to help. And I damn sure don’t berate people because their Jeep is having trouble on a trail. That’s just bs. The fact that you find your perspective valid says everything. I didn’t complain a single bit on that trail. And no one was waiting on me. If you’ve got a problem with working through a tough trail, maybe you aren’t the right personality to be on a run like that. My jeep wasn’t the largest, but I’ve been through trails like that before. The damage was frustrating. But I’m not posting about damage. I’m posting about people’s attitudes. A good spotter discusses the plan with the driver. A bad spotter yells and threatens. I was trying to avoid damage. You told me if I continued to try to avoid damage that you’d leave me out there. That’s not wheeling. You guys talked a big game in the beginning of the trail, about just figuring it out and getting through. But when it got late, you needed a punching bag. And it was the guy with 37’s. You would have had a right to be frustrated if I was holding people up tryingoptional lines or hard lines. Nope. I don’t experiment on group runs. I was taking the line of least resistance. Was it an extreme trail? Absolutely. But that changes nothing I’ve said. Trying to get through a tough trail in a group is about teamwork, not orders and threats.

Sponsored

 

[WILDHOBO]

I think it boils down to selfishness. A few didn't want to slow down, which is why they wanted to drag you up and over obstacles rather than help you stack rocks. They simply didn't care about everyone in the group.

Group leaders don't always lead from the front. Sometimes they lead from the back. When hiking, I oftentimes let my wife lead from the front. That way she sets the pace and enjoys the views. And when we get to an obstacle, guess what? She doesn't always take the same approach that I take, which is perfectly fine. She should take the approach that makes her feel the most comfortable and the safest.

Being part of a large group is about responsibility and putting others before yourself. At the end of the day, you feel good when everyone gets out safe and enjoyed their time.

Out, safe, and happy. Well said.

 

[Jeremy P]

Mentioning to you that your front sway bar links are holding back your suspension is not an insult. It is constructive criticism. You managed to upset the trail leader who was trying to help you, the second gentlemen who was trying to help you and the company you were there to wheel with. All of them gave on helping you. Those are some very mild mannored folks. Think about that for a second, you managed to make 3 people give up on trying to help you. That has nothing to do with me. I only got upset with you after you mumbled something under your breath in your driver seat when we were trying to get you unstuck, but you would not repeat it. But I still didn't leave you. I can put personalities aside for the sake of getting someone off a trail with their rig. Out of all 400+ rigs that were with us that weekend only (1) person had a bad experience. That can also be a reflection of that individual. I am going to chalk it up to situational base as I do not know you at all. I did not care about stacking rocks, pulling cable for you, rigging to other vehicles for you, reseating beads. None of that. But when someone is trying to help you, give you directions and you get hung up over and over again on flat ground and don't listen to those trying to help you (not just myself), you must understand people will get frustrated with you just like you did in the driver seat. About one third of the way into the trail, all I kept thinking was, dam, that rig should not be in here, how many more obstacles are there and are we going to be able to get him and that Jeep out of here. You made alot of your own decisions that day that also attributed to the situation. I too was not pleased alot of folks left us, even the guy driving my rig, but I still did not leave you. This was not a group size thing as there were only 25-30 rigs in there. As you recall, we all went through Terminator very well, it was well organized, everyone did great and people kept moving. Then when we decided to go try something new, none of us knew, when we hit the hard stuff is when things turned sideways. But you made the decision to go in there. I am glad you did not dispute any of the points I made in the first post, because those were facts, nothing personal, just how it went down. This is simply a case of a rig that entered into a trail that should not have been there. I do think you could have made it alot easier on yourself. I get things get heated when people get exhausted. I do not blame the 3 that walked away from you. People can only take so much. Two of them did not even have vehicles in there, they were merely there to help. At the end of the day I am just glad we got you and your rig out of there. The reason for me posting anything, was your POV was very one sided and deminished the efforts of alot of people . Alot of people worked very hard to get you out of there and your post completely deminishes their effort on getting a rig not equipped for the trail back to the road. That was not your fault. Huge thanks goes out to Josh, Abby, Kevin and Britt for sticking with it until the end with me regardless of the situation.

 

[antihero23]

You know it all seems like a big misunderstanding to me. Both parties make solid points. It's all personal perspective. But I just can't get past spelling the word diminished as "deminished", multiple times, so I'm ruling in favor of WildHobo.

 

[KevinC]

A seamstress tape doesn't risk the chance of cutting yourself compared to a construction tape. Please measure wisely.

 

[Zachanadandy]

Between douches and flakes, these stories remind me why the wife and I mostly run solo everywhere. If you're stuck or making repairs I have all the patience in the world. If we are waiting for you to play grab ass all day I'm done and I'm out. I've never started a fight in my life, but you don't have to try hard to talk me into one. There's 0 chance I'd be able to finish the trail with a prick like that. Likely would have started with "shut the fuck up and leave then". If he was dumb enough to keep talking it would have gone worse. And just because morons can't have a couple beers throughout the day without behaving like children doesn't mean I'm giving up my trail side beer breaks either. Sorry to hear about your rig, but at least it's getting fixed. I think the conflicting information on insurance coverage comes from how the question is asked. The vast majority of trails are forest roads. The rubicon is a county road. Unless there's a specific exclusion in your insurance policy (which I've yet to see anyone find) prohibiting driving on dirt roads they can't choose not to cover you. Even if you roll it off the trail, that's no different than rolling it off the shoulder on the highway. It's still covered. The only exclusion I've found in my policy is for racing, so KOH is out, but the hammers on any other day are still covered. There was one guy in the wrangler forum that rolled his 392. Not only did the insurance pay out for the totaled rig, they paid the big tow bill to recover it and get it off the trail.

 

[WILDHOBO]

Mentioning to you that your front sway bar links are holding back your suspension is not an insult. It is constructive criticism. You managed to upset the trail leader who was trying to help you, the second gentlemen who was trying to help you and the company you were there to wheel with. All of them gave on helping you. Those are some very mild mannored folks. Think about that for a second, you managed to make 3 people give up on trying to help you. That has nothing to do with me. I only got upset with you after you mumbled something under your breath in your driver seat when we were trying to get you unstuck, but you would not repeat it. But I still didn't leave you. I can put personalities aside for the sake of getting someone off a trail with their rig. Out of all 400+ rigs that were with us that weekend only (1) person had a bad experience. That can also be a reflection of that individual. I am going to chalk it up to situational base as I do not know you at all. I did not care about stacking rocks, pulling cable for you, rigging to other vehicles for you, reseating beads. None of that. But when someone is trying to help you, give you directions and you get hung up over and over again on flat ground and don't listen to those trying to help you (not just myself), you must understand people will get frustrated with you just like you did in the driver seat. About one third of the way into the trail, all I kept thinking was, dam, that rig should not be in here, how many more obstacles are there and are we going to be able to get him and that Jeep out of here. You made alot of your own decisions that day that also attributed to the situation. I too was not pleased alot of folks left us, even the guy driving my rig, but I still did not leave you. This was not a group size thing as there were only 25-30 rigs in there. As you recall, we all went through Terminator very well, it was well organized, everyone did great and people kept moving. Then when we decided to go try something new, none of us knew, when we hit the hard stuff is when things turned sideways. But you made the decision to go in there. I am glad you did not dispute any of the points I made in the first post, because those were facts, nothing personal, just how it went down. This is simply a case of a rig that entered into a trail that should not have been there. I do think you could have made it alot easier on yourself. I get things get heated when people get exhausted. I do not blame the 3 that walked away from you. People can only take so much. Two of them did not even have vehicles in there, they were merely there to help. At the end of the day I am just glad we got you and your rig out of there. The reason for me posting anything, was your POV was very one sided and deminished the efforts of alot of people . Alot of people worked very hard to get you out of there and your post completely deminishes their effort on getting a rig not equipped for the trail back to the road. That was not your fault. Huge thanks goes out to Josh, Abby, Kevin and Britt for sticking with it until the end with me regardless of the situation.

I diminished nothing. I also called out no one. You decided to make it personal. Stop claiming that what you and the other three were doing was “helping”. You were disparaging from the get go, and continue to do that here. You don’t get to claim that helping goes hand in hand with being rude and selfish. You have no business ordering me around. None. To say I had no business on that trail is none of your damn business. But you think you somehow were better than me? That you were the trailer authority. You were mad because I didn’t do exactly as you told me to do. I don’t answer to you. You and the other three treated me like an employee that wasn’t in their department. And when I wanted to discuss my options, you couldn’t be bothered with all that. So you and those three lashed out. Muttered under my breath? Nope. I decided in that moment to be an adult, and not tell you and the other three why I was angry at you. Because it wouldn’t improve the situation you already made into such a shitty one. And to imply that I didn’t appreciate those that WERE helping without judgement? I made a point of thanking them all, not only there on the trail, directly and in person, but afterword. I’ve spoken to Josh at length about how much I appreciated he, Abby, Kevin, and Brittany that day. So don’t imply something about me, when you haven’t the slightest clue. Maybe go troll another forum. I’m sure it’ll go just as well.

 

[Socket-Jockey]

The end result is a trashed driver bedside, trashed fender, and the worst is the passenger side. The rock slide steps with the armor weren’t up to the task. After 5 years of tough-ass trails, it was enough. A single impact crushed the step and pushed all three sections of the rocket panel in about 2 inches............

These are the Rock Sliders from Rock Slide Engineering with the 3/16" steel Skid Plates attached???
Yikes. I thought the 3/16 up-armor plates will hold up better than this....

 

[Bandit’s Lair]

400+ rigs? That’s a crazy amount to run through 1 trail! Thats a get the camp chairs out at each obstacle kinda ish.

 

[Jeremy P]

400+ rigs? That’s a crazy amount to run through 1 trail! Thats a get the camp chairs out at each obstacle kinda ish.

 

[WILDHOBO]

Between douches and flakes, these stories remind me why the wife and I mostly run solo everywhere. If you're stuck or making repairs I have all the patience in the world. If we are waiting for you to play grab ass all day I'm done and I'm out. I've never started a fight in my life, but you don't have to try hard to talk me into one. There's 0 chance I'd be able to finish the trail with a prick like that. Likely would have started with "shut the fuck up and leave then". If he was dumb enough to keep talking it would have gone worse. And just because morons can't have a couple beers throughout the day without behaving like children doesn't mean I'm giving up my trail side beer breaks either. Sorry to hear about your rig, but at least it's getting fixed. I think the conflicting information on insurance coverage comes from how the question is asked. The vast majority of trails are forest roads. The rubicon is a county road. Unless there's a specific exclusion in your insurance policy (which I've yet to see anyone find) prohibiting driving on dirt roads they can't choose not to cover you. Even if you roll it off the trail, that's no different than rolling it off the shoulder on the highway. It's still covered. The only exclusion I've found in my policy is for racing, so KOH is out, but the hammers on any other day are still covered. There was one guy in the wrangler forum that rolled his 392. Not only did the insurance pay out for the totaled rig, they paid the big tow bill to recover it and get it off the trail.

Insurance isn’t an issue. I was clear before binding a policy that it needs to cover personal use off road. And it’s covered. I sat there and clenched my teeth to not say what should have been said that day. But hotheads and people that think they can dictate the actions of others they consider to be less, aren’t worth my time. And they were looking for a reason. I wasn’t going to give them one. It’s too bad my post that didn’t mention the event, didn’t mention people, didn’t call anyone out, and didn’t share easily identifiable pictures of the day, had to turn into this crap. But clearly someone is still mad that I didn’t submit to their will that day. Sorry. That I won’t do. Keep your superiority complex to yourself.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

We had a couple Suzukis when I wheeled in Yuma. A Samurai and one of those cars on a samurai frame. They were good until they hit a steep descent.

Frankly, I thought they were cute and looked like they could be fun.

 

[WILDHOBO]

400+ rigs? That’s a crazy amount to run through 1 trail! Thats a get the camp chairs out at each obstacle kinda ish.

They were tying to exaggerate. There were about 10 on the trail being discussed. 15 tops. But I didn’t count. Tiny subset of the event.

 

[Jeremy P]

The 400+ rigs was over the course of the entire 3 day weekend and all the trails being run. The most I have ever had on a single trail was a little over 100 coming out of Pritchett Canyon. We went in with 40, but there were two big groups in there who let us go through and then asked if we could spot them out so we did. That was the longest day of my life.

The Last Stand (which is the trail this gentleman is talking about) we had mid 20's to low 30's go into and it was totally optional. None of us had ever been on it before. Hence, not knowing the vehicle requirements or suggestions, but everyone knew that going into it.

 

[Jeremy P]

They were tying to exaggerate. There were about 10 on the trail being discussed. 15 tops. But I didn’t count. Tiny subset of the event.

Sponsored