Genesis Dual Batt - problems for future engine repairs? and sufficient size for good AH ratings?

[chorky]

So the Genesis is a neat option. But it seems to take up a bunch more space - of course due to two batteries.

For those who have it installed - do you see any issues it could cause if a person had to do engine work? Such as removing the passenger side valve cover, or any other type of work on that side of the engine?

Also - does anyone have any info about what AH ratings a lithium battery of the size the Genesis allows is? I looked up some Victron options the other day but didn't see any of that size - group 25 I believe?

Ultimately debating if this is worth it or not, or if a simple bed mounted aux bat is a better way to go.

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[chorky]

no comments on this?

I have determined a mobile bed mounted 'house' battery is the better way to go but considering how cumbersome the aux battery is to access, was thinking the genesis is a nice way to put batteries in a easy to access location.

still haven't found out though what the AH ratings are for the smaller group 25 batteries (factory for the JLR I think is a group 34?). Also curious how big of a deal any warranty stuff might be with experiences of those who have this. I know there is the law that a dealer has to prove that xx accessory caused the problem but it seems even a bigger deal simply finding a dealer that will work on modified things in the first place - there is only one dealer in my area.

 

[obrianmcc]

IMO if you are conducting any substantial engine work/maintenance ... removal of the battery tray might already be a required step and an easy one at that ....

 

[arjeeper]

Repair: In terms of engine repair, the Genesis battery setup would be far easier to remove than the factory tray.

Group 25: While I’d love larger batteries than Group 25, the limitation is the engine compartment space. And quality group 25 batteries still offer a lot of additional AH over the factory setup.

I considered a bed-mounted house battery and all the BMS, wiring etc. to maintain that and ultimately decided the space and maintenance concessions didn’t make it worth it for me when the Genesis kit, while not perfect, provides a nice self contained solution that doesn’t extend beyond the engine bay.

 

[chorky]

Repair: In terms of engine repair, the Genesis battery setup would be far easier to remove than the factory tray.

Group 25: While I’d love larger batteries than Group 25, the limitation is the engine compartment space. And quality group 25 batteries still offer a lot of additional AH over the factory setup.

I considered a bed-mounted house battery and all the BMS, wiring etc. to maintain that and ultimately decided the space and maintenance concessions didn’t make it worth it for me when the Genesis kit, while not perfect, provides a nice self contained solution that doesn’t extend beyond the engine bay.

if I remember the specs on thebatteries included with the genesis kit correctly they only offer 25ah each. But beingAGM you cantgo below 80% without damage. So that only allows for 5%ah of power. I am struggling to see how anyone is actually functioning off of that for a house battery. I guess it depends on what your running but even a fridge can pull 80ah in 16 hour time period.

 

[azmojave]

if I remember the specs on thebatteries included with the genesis kit correctly they only offer 25ah each. But beingAGM you cantgo below 80% without damage. So that only allows for 5%ah of power. I am struggling to see how anyone is actually functioning off of that for a house battery. I guess it depends on what your running but even a fridge can pull 80ah in 16 hour time period.

This is from Genesis-

• Any Group 25 size battery will fit our tray (Note the stock battery is not compatible)
• For your convenience, we currently offer the Full River FT750-25, an excellent battery that has 750CCA (cold cranking amps) and 64aH (amp hours) of reserve capacity

 

[azmojave]

I had the kit in my JK and it didn’t really take up much more room. Dealership never said anything negative but actually admired it. I will probably add it to the JT eventually.

 

[chorky]

This is from Genesis-

• Any Group 25 size battery will fit our tray (Note the stock battery is not compatible)
• For your convenience, we currently offer the Full River FT750-25, an excellent battery that has 750CCA (cold cranking amps) and 64aH (amp hours) of reserve capacity

ok i had my numbers wrong. So at 64ah capacity that still only allows for 13ah of use before damage occurs.

 

[Rummie]

ok i had my numbers wrong. So at 64ah capacity that still only allows for 13ah of use before damage occurs.

You are assuming that you can only discharge the battery by 20% before damaging it. Take a look at this thread to get a little better info. You can discharge more than 50% regularly without issue in AGM batteries. There is a lot of similar info out there on AGM batteries.

https://expeditionportal.com/forum/...eyond-50-could-it-be-a-smarter-choice.154646/

 

[chorky]

You are assuming that you can only discharge the battery by 20% before damaging it. Take a look at this thread to get a little better info. You can discharge more than 50% regularly without issue in AGM batteries. There is a lot of similar info out there on AGM batteries.

https://expeditionportal.com/forum/...eyond-50-could-it-be-a-smarter-choice.154646/

I'm not so sure if that's true to be blunt. I have spent a lot of time over at that forum site and even with some super smart folks, there is a awful lot of different opinions out there so what actually is and isn't is hard to distinguish. For example on page 2 of that link someone states "FLA batteries should not be drawn down at a rate higher than 25% of capacity, for AGM it is 30%". But lets just use that 50%. Even at that, that's only 32ah of available capacity. at 30% SOC (which seems WAY too low to not cause permanent damage) its 45ah. So 45ah, running a fridge that, say, averages at 3.5ah only gives 12 hours before the battery reaches 30%. Thats only one device. If you stick to 50% then that's only 9 hours. Wouldn't even make it through the night. At 30% you are at 11.79v, which is already below the cutoff of most fridges I believe. 50% is around 12.09v, but with a startup amperage pull of around 8 amps, it would easily trip the low voltage cutoff... So it brings you up again to needing that 80% SOC to make sure everything functions correctly.

This is my understanding. I would like to see if anyone can share experiences, voltages, amperages, and other data that shows me wrong. It would be awesome to be able to go with a simple setup like the Genesis - I'm just not sure it's going to work with the limited battery size

 

[Rummie]

I am gonna have to completely disagree with you. Not gonna take the time to debate it here. I can tell you that in real world usage I have run my Dometic fridge and other things for a lot longer than that in the real world. And I don't even have a solar setup.

 

[chorky]

I am gonna have to completely disagree with you. Not gonna take the time to debate it here. I can tell you that in real world usage I have run my Dometic fridge and other things for a lot longer than that in the real world. And I don't even have a solar setup.

What other items are you running? Is that all off of the one aux battery in the Genesis system?

 

[arjeeper]

…running a fridge that, say, averages at 3.5ah…

Specs for my ARB Elements fridge are less than 1/3 that: “0.9Ah per hour average energy consumption tested at 37.4ºF cabinet temperature, 86ºF ambient temperature, test duration of 24 hours and supply voltage of 12V DC”

Ultimately, if you want to run a large LiFePo/lithium battery, and are willing to manage the charger needs and work within its temperature limitations, it will be great. Those systems are awesome. I use LiFePO4 for some of my other hobbies.

I needed a system that was more rugged and all-season in my Jeep, and preferred one that didn’t have in-cabin/bed storage requirements.

 

[obrianmcc]

It sounds to me that you are seriousness overthinking this ... I have yet to read a review where someone has regretted the install of a Genesis system.

Me personally ... I have recently deleted the AUX battery and are running with an upgraded (in theory) Odyssey ... if my power needs increase I will most definitely be installing a Genesis

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