leveling kit and alignment

[NewGladdyOWNR]

I've always wondered what the difference would be when the sway bar is disconnected and the axle is at full articulation (rock crawling etc.) vs not loosening the control arms when installing a lift. Seems like the bushings would get equally torqued when the axle is fully articulated when crawling.

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[Artsifrtsi]

I've always wondered what the difference would be when the sway bar is disconnected and the axle is at full articulation (rock crawling etc.) vs not loosening the control arms when installing a lift. Seems like the bushings would get equally torqued when the axle is fully articulated when crawling.

It's not so much the occasional twist that @ShadowsPapa is preaching at, it is the preload on the bushings that gets set when you don't loosen/torque the arms back properly. When offroading, the bushing is naturally working through it's designed range of motion, and returning to a neutral position. That preloaded position will wear out the rubber eventually... how long? no real way to guarantee or predict that, but better to keep in neutral.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

It's not so much the occasional twist that @ShadowsPapa is preaching at, it is the preload on the bushings that gets set when you don't loosen/torque the arms back properly. When offroading, the bushing is naturally working through it's designed range of motion, and returning to a neutral position. That preloaded position will wear out the rubber eventually... how long? no real way to guarantee or predict that, but better to keep in neutral.

It also has some impact on ride and handling. How much? That will vary and also impossible to predict. "But it rides fine" - who knows, it could ride and handle even better.

Imagine the bushings set at factory curb height. Then you add a lift - you now have a twist on that rubber bushing ALL THE TIME, even just sitting. Now take it out and abuse it and you start out with a bushing already twisted and twist it even more.
If it's set back to neutral twist, or no twist, with the lift install, any articulation up or down, is working on either side of neutral and it always returns to neutral once you get out of the ravine or over the rock and driving down the road, there's no preload on that bushing.

Think about it - leading and trailing arm suspensions, solid axles, suspensions of all types, have used bonded rubber bushings for well over 60 years. And some of us have worked with said bushings and suspension systems nearly that long.
If there was a better way, or a "cheat" was ok, donchathink that in the 1960s someone would have said hey, we can lift or modify or swap springs and just not release the tension on those bushings years ago instead of now by someone on youtube or some guy referred to as "my guy" decades after these came into use?
People have been modifying and replacing parts like this since before I was born, I've worked with them since the early 1970s, and then someone suddenly comes along decades later and says "it's ok to take a shortcut" like it's some life hack years later?
I don't buy it, sorry. TRW, MOOG and other makers of suspension parts all say the same thing, as do any with real world experience. There will always be those looking to take a shortcut and avoid some work.

 

[HeavyMetal]

Teraflex’s instructions themselves say in Step #9 to Loosen Control Arm Bolts. An then #20 and #21 to lower Jeep back to ground and tighten.
I understand you may have not needed to do this to get the Kit installed but maybe there was reason for this step —- surely not to make the job harder……..

 

[Artsifrtsi]

Teraflex’s instructions themselves say in Step #9 to Loosen Control Arm Bolts. An then #20 and #21 to lower Jeep back to ground and tighten.
I understand you may have not needed to do this to get the Kit installed but maybe there was reason for this step —- surely not to make the job harder……..

The JKS lift instructions say pretty much the same thing… I suspect that all kits probably say something to the same effect…. But, you know, reading is hard…

edit: and these will be the same people in a few years bitching about cheap sub-standard part used by Jeep…

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The JKS lift instructions say pretty much the same thing… I suspect that all kits probably say something to the same effect…. But, you know, reading is hard…

edit: and these will be the same people in a few years bitching about cheap sub-standard part used by Jeep…

The JL instructions say the same thing, well, not really, it's mostly pictures with the "do not tighten these fasteners until instructed to do so" so there are some words but if you can read 1,000 BCE Egyptian, you should be ok with the pictures.

 

[Gvsukids]

I needed the leveling kit to compensate for my winch and I still have a rake.

 

[wildtaco]

I added a one inch Teraflex spacer and drove mine for a couple of years. Seemed to drive great and I didn't feel any issues. I eventually noticed uneven tire wear and had it aligned. Same as another mentioned, toe and camber were off and who knows how and where that happened. Could have been the big rocks or maybe that way from factory. I'd go ahead and check yours.

we all have different experience, for me when inadded a one inch Teraflex spacer and drove mine for a couple of years, seems nice. Same as another mentioned, toe and camber were off and who knows how and where that happened.
I had 500 miles on my truck when this was done and it could have come from the factory this way.

Interesting reply Chvee.... give this bot the boot @JAY

 

[Escape.idiocracy]

There are so many things in this thread that fall directly in line with so many societal issues…. Everything is really just starting to make more and more sense.

There is a good handful of people on this forum with good working knowledge of mechanics, and off roading… This is a great place-( even if you're in your late 60’s-70’s ?? ) to learn new things, or to have steps missed by incorrectly demonstrated videos-corrected. These comments of correction come with good intent, they are not personal stabs.
Jeeps are solid axle vehicles, which from the comments- this is the first solid axle vehicle many of you have owned, or maybe just the first not on leaf springs and or lifted…? Regardless several of you have pointed out missed items. Either take the information given as a helping hand and move on…. Or don’t post about it.
facts:
1) lifting a Jeep requires loosening both ends of all control arms, once work is completed- tighten the control arm bolts AFTER weight has been put back on the tires… the factory control arms have knurled ends that if this isn’t done has binding force and will increase the wear, possibly effect handling and overall the performance of the joint from its intended design.
2) the front traction bar/ rear pan hard bar are what center the axle. I can agree for the rear up to around 2.5” lift height you “can” get away with the factory bar- as it pushes the rear axle 1/16-1/8” out of center on the passenger side. The front however has more significant shift… 2.5” offsets the axle by ~3/8” this SHOULD be corrected with an adjustable front track bar.
3) an alignment with factory control arms, and factory track bars is nothing more than a toe in toe out adjustment on the tie rod, and a recenter of the steering wheel with the drag link. - you can, and Should learn to do this at home IF you off road. It can be done in a few minutes and once this is learned, will be realized it was a waste of $80-150. ** IF you have adjustable control arms, there are 4 additional adjustments, and alignments can still be done at home (string method), but let’s be real based on the other comments left- just take it to an “off road” shop…. Be advised MOST shops won’t adjust, adjustable control arms as a standard alignment….

This has truly been a painful thread.

 

[katsrdking]

"This has truly been a painful thread."

Might make the most popular of the week!

 

[D57]

No formal training here, just 25 years of modding Jeeps. I’ve installed several lifts on different Jeeps myself solo. I’ve made dumb mistakes and learned the hard way over the years. Trust the old guys…shortcuts never end well. Only reason to not loosen the control arms, etc is just laziness. Torquing them back to spec while on the ground…well that takes some muscle.

With my JTR, I learned from past experience to buy a kit with adjustable track bars and control arms. I did the basic RR Clayton 2.5”, and I have zero regrets. I’m not chasing any issues, needing to upgrade x or y, etc. Its nice to do it once and be happy. I also followed all of the instructions down to a T…I didn’t get in a hurry and did it right.

As far as buying a used Jeep…I have bought three over the years, but they were bone stock. I bought my son a JK, and the dealer slapped on a RC spacer lift right before we found it and bought it. It was just done because there was a horrible squeak that nobody would have been able to stand. Since it was just installed and there were no other mods, I thought I could fix it pretty easy. After two weeks of pulling my hair out, I discovered they left out a wide washer that was holding on the spacer on the pass rear. Poly spacer was rotating in the cup without that washer. Ditched the whole kit and installed OME springs and Bilstien shocks. Rush job by the dealership and a .25 washer caused several hours of troubleshooting in 95 degree heat. I was so obsessed over fixing it that my wife eventually sat me down and questioned my sanity. Sway bar links, bad shock, greased the spacers, could not zero in exactly where it was coming from and I was losing my mind.

I’ll buy used but they have to be stock suspensions at a minimum.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Jeeps are solid axle vehicles, which from the comments- this is the first solid axle vehicle many of you have owned, or maybe just the first not on leaf springs and or lifted…? Regardless several of you have pointed out missed items. Either take the information given as a helping hand and move on…. Or don’t post about it.

Your comment mentions leaf springs - interesting note on that as well -
The same rule applies to leaf springs Ask the Ford light truck guys. or - the AMC car guys.
I've helped people who posted things in our AMC forum - they replace the leaf springs with the best of the best Eaton-Detroit leaf springs. They are made to exacting specs they somehow got from extremely rare AMC records or else a ton of research and such. You put E-D springs under your AMX or Javelin and it's going to be perfect. Well, too many raise the car, support the chassis by the rear frame rails, lower the axle down so they can get the shackles taken apart and the frame-to-spring bolt out of the front of the spring, then they remove the old springs, put the new ones in place and raise or lower the axle so things line up and the pop the bolts back in and put the shackles together and guess what - they tighten it all down tight, then lower the car. They then bitch about the rear of the car sitting 1/2 to 1" higher than it should. Those damn springs are crap!
No, it's operator error - reverse the process until you get back to the point where you tightened the bolts, now loosen them so there's no tension on them, now lower the car to the ground so it's sitting on the tires, bounce the rear of the car a few times, let it settle, NOW tighten the bolts and shackle nuts. Sits perfectly now, doesn't it?!

Same for those guys who want to lower their car and do it the stupid way of cutting off part of the coil spring. They tighten the control arm bolts with the suspension hanging, then decided they didn't cut enough off the coil and do it again........ and in the end after the bushings rip apart, now the front of the car sits too low.
First, they should have used lowering plates to raise the spindles, not cut the coils, but if they insist on the coil cutting bit, at least leave the control arm bolts loose until the car is on the ground and then tighten them!
Bonded bushings will actually hold a vehicle up if done improperly - until they fatigue and "wear" or rip out of the sleeve, then it drops.
Some simply claim "oh, that's just the suspension naturally settling"
If that was the case then after a year or two, every new vehicle would drop 1/2" or so.

When I am released from my 10 pound limit for lifting and so on, I need to go out and get some pictures of some of the bushings I've saved over the years - and show just how things look over time. Those tubs of suspension parts easily weigh in the 30+ pound range.

 

[Gvsukids]

Torquing them back to spec while on the ground…well that takes some muscle.

I found that by using a floor jack underneath the end of a torque wrench, I could hit the higher number torque specs.

 

[D57]

I’m going to try that later to make sure mine are in spec. After the 12 hours of install, I was so tired I know a couple bolts I couldn’t get to click because of the angle and my exhaustion lol

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I found that by using a floor jack underneath the end of a torque wrench, I could hit the higher number torque specs.

We get more creative as we age - might be a combination of things.........
Yeah, tighten a pinion nut and start that crush sleeve crushing. I did it with ease in my first jobs, now a floor jack is my best friend.

And for the lower control arms - there's this ->

Lowers are simple. Uppers are tougher but getting creative - or eating your spinach.........

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