Manual Trans....what am I missing?

[DreamedofaJeepSomeday]

So tell me again how it would even remotely make sense to have a 'self driving only' portion of a 'drivers license'????? Most millennial absurd, lack of common sense, lack of big picture I've ever seen. I'm am almost at a loss for words...almost

I could be wrong, but I think the implication was that half the drivers on the road are not qualified to drive on their own. Like us old farts. [

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[JT-NOOB]

Shouldn't need much of a drivers license then as that would imply you were federally granted permission to operate two tons of death through public spaces as you are qualified to do so. You have the skills necessary and can pass all the tests required.

For those other people you're talking about, 'self driving only', that exists, it's an app, called uber.

So who owns these 'self driving cars?', who's insurance covers the accidents? Who's liability? When you push the 'self drive' button does the liability then shift to the team of programmers at tesla?

I'm thinking that new tech is great but don't forget the big picture. I don't see how they distinguish the difference in liability if you own the car and it's in a wreck...from the driver/owner to the people who programmed everything on the autonomous side? I think these need to be completely separate things. Private car owner, 100% responsible for operation of vehicle, not partially responsible. A big company wants to come out with a fleet of autonomous cars then great, order one up on the app and the insurance and liability is on them.

I saw an instagram post the other day of a guy having a nap in his tesla in the fast lane on a freeway, the car in the middle lane taking the video of him. Absolutely unbelievable to me but this is what humans will actually do with the 'self drive' button, even though you're supposed to remain attentive to be ready for emergency situations? The fact that these buttons already exist and were tested without anyone knowing on public roadways really blows my mind. How this all got past government regulation is a total mystery.

I sure hope no one i know is killed by this growing pain of trying to figure out if it's a good idea to hand over control of a two ton death machine to some private companies computer programmers when your the one liable and on the hook for when shtf. If you own a tesla, please don't ever push that button while my kids are in a vehicle sharing the roads with you.

That guy having a nap behind the wheel should go to jail for a long time, if for nothing but absolute stupidity on top of how dangerous driving, distracted driving, and every other conceivable charge that could be levied against him. Tesla...what in the world are you thinking? The lawsuits that will be headed your way, even though you've covered your butt, and the sad people that don't realize that they are putting their lives in someone elses hands the minute they push that button.

So tell me again how it would even remotely make sense to have a 'self driving only' portion of a 'drivers license'????? Most millenial absurd, lack of common sense, lack of big picture i've ever seen. I'm am almost at a loss for words...almost

How these thoughts even get into the same sentence is a complete mystery. I hear you in that half the people on the road aren't actually qualified to operate two ton machines so they should find alternate ways, or get qualified. But to give them a button while they need to remain attentive to handle emergency situations is so wrong i can't even...

I can't believe how little we understand what operating a motor vehicle means in this day and age? A right not a privilege of course. It's not that it's 5000 lbs of steel at 80 mph that you are 100% in care and control of...would that not suggest the utmost in seriousness every time you start it up and put your seat belt on????? I mean seriously, this is the real deal, you are about to pilot two tons of death at incredible speeds through narrow arteries in public spaces with a whole bunch of other people doing the exact same thing. And people want to hit the self drive button and have a nap on the way to work? No...you want to have an expresso before you get in that puppy, and be 'on point' for the task at hand...operating a motor vehicle. FER FACK SAKE!

Don't you usually mail these directly to the FBI?

 

[Jt-wrx]

I could be wrong, but I think the implication was that half the drivers on the road are not qualified to drive on their own. Like us old farts. [

LOL, i was trying to show the young buck exactly that, he seemed to be missing the big picture. We don't want to give the unqualified an easy button...which will just make them even more unqualified. We want to point them in the direction of uber, public transit, bicycles...alternate modes of transportation, or perhaps back to driving school.

The worst thing we can do is give them an easy button that they will completely ignore the true liability and responsibility of what happens when they decide to use it. Putting the rest of us on the roads even more at risk as their skills and ability to handle emergency situations diminishes with their lack of practice in the art of real driving.

He does see it correctly though...half the people with a drivers license we see today probably should have them. He just suggested a solution that goes the wrong direction. Now he has been enlightened. Not all heros wear capes.

 

[Nick]

Nice rant . Got me thinking about aspects of self driving cars that I hadn't considered.

 

[Markpod7]

LOL, i was trying to show the young buck exactly that, he seemed to be missing the big picture. We don't want to give the unqualified an easy button...which will just make them even more unqualified. We want to point them in the direction of uber, public transit, bicycles...alternate modes of transportation, or perhaps back to driving school.

The worst thing we can do is give them an easy button that they will completely ignore the true liability and responsibility of what happens when they decide to use it. Putting the rest of us on the roads even more at risk as their skills and ability to handle emergency situations diminishes with their lack of practice in the art of real driving.

He does see it correctly though...half the people with a drivers license we see today probably should have them. He just suggested a solution that goes the wrong direction. Now he has been enlightened. Not all heros wear capes.

Smaht pahk?

 

[Jt-wrx]

we need to make the roads safer i agree, but increasing the skills behind the wheel and making the tests a little tougher should help, improve the quality of drivers actually on the road would be a big step

if programmers can account for the infinite possibilities of shtf on public roadways, from all conceivable issues, then that really will be amazing, i don't think it's possible as there are just so many variables to overcome, the environmental/wildlife/pedestrian issues alone would be impossible to predict and develop programs to solve instantly, added the issues that pertain to each individual road, intersection etc., there are so many million things that can happen on a single road and totally different sets of parameters for another road, i just don't get it, there are reasons trains work better on rails, remove a lot of the variables, much easier to predict

but giving the already questionable drivers a self drive button flies in the face of all common sense and logic, i'm scared for the future, not much else worries me but this just blows my mind

how much money did mr tesla have to put in some politicians pocket to even get this bullshit off the ground? madness

 

[JT-NOOB]

JT-wrx, it's not the future that is frightening to you, it is the unknown. For you, ADAS is very clearly the unknown. "Autonomous" is only a small part of the larger spectrum of driver assistance technology that is quickly becoming ubiquitous in the new car market. I would encourage you to learn more and resist the urge to form such rigid opinions with so little understanding.

These systems are not quite ready to drive autonomously, and handle all the situations you have imagined on the road. However, they are capable of improving the safety of exactly the drivers of marginal skill and attention you fear. And unlike human drivers, the companies developing these systems don't get to simply throw up their hands and say "Sorry, I make a mistake". They are liable and that is why they are being developed in a thorough manner.

In an accident with an unassisted human, you essentially have no recourse unless there is gross negligence of some sort. Even the above average driver is easily distracted, has limited bandwidth and is very error prone. They are actually not very difficult to improve

 

[Bbannongmu]

Manual transmission...
Like the fun/engagement

like the control

like avoiding the 8 speed auto nannies

didn’t like how quiet the 3.6 is do I went with a Borla cat back so I can shift by sound. Bonus it provided some extra pep

 

[Jt-wrx]

jt-noob

https://www.wired.com/story/self-driving-car-crashes-rear-endings-why-charts-statistics/
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jun/30/tesla-autopilot-death-self-driving-car-elon-musk
https://www.gpsworld.com/autonomous-car-hits-autonomous-robot-in-bizarre-collision/
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/05/feds-autopilot-was-active-during-deadly-march-tesla-crash/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...vehicle-testing-after-a-pedestrian-is-struck/
https://www.theverge.com/2016/1/13/10759424/google-self-driving-car-accidents-driver-disengagements
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/10/04/opinion/self-driving-cars-safety.html

One quick google and first page loaded with the goodness you speak.

Also, this months Car & Driver magazine with the 10 best on the front, a gladiator and a c8 vette. Grab that and read the hits/misses column, one of the misses was Autonomous Driving, and sited that pedestrian deaths highest in 2018 since about 20 years ago or some shizzo like that. You should check it out if you can. Basically all cyclists and pedestrians should be in serious new fear for their lives. We don't win against 5000 lbs of machine capable of 100 mph in seconds.

Anyone pushes that button should automatically go to jail imo, or be ejected. Anyone who builds a car with that button should go to jail. This is one of humanities biggest oversights and loss of the big picture.

I am all for safety...this is not the way. Add in the nannies all day long, to supplement, i'm down, but nothing can replace a qualified alert driver. There should never ever be an auto-pilot button on a motor vehicle....EVER! It's our job to step up to the plate able and ready for the task at hand...piloting 5000 lbs of death at incredible speeds through narrow arteries in public spaces....with others doing the same. This demands so much more respect and attention than our lazy asses want to give it, adding a button is not a solution to the problem. Getting them off the road is. Take the bus if you don't understand what it really means to get into a motor vehicle and operate it.

 

[Mr._Bill]

we need to make the roads safer i agree, but increasing the skills behind the wheel and making the tests a little tougher should help, improve the quality of drivers actually on the road would be a big step

if programmers can account for the infinite possibilities of shtf on public roadways, from all conceivable issues, then that really will be amazing, i don't think it's possible as there are just so many variables to overcome, the environmental/wildlife/pedestrian issues alone would be impossible to predict and develop programs to solve instantly, added the issues that pertain to each individual road, intersection etc., there are so many million things that can happen on a single road and totally different sets of parameters for another road, i just don't get it, there are reasons trains work better on rails, remove a lot of the variables, much easier to predict

but giving the already questionable drivers a self drive button flies in the face of all common sense and logic, i'm scared for the future, not much else worries me but this just blows my mind

how much money did mr tesla have to put in some politicians pocket to even get this bullshit off the ground? madness

The problem with Tesla's are the drivers, not the cars. The Tesla is not a self-driving car, and not advertised or sold as such. It has a very sophisticated cruise control that will keep the car in it's lane and prevent it from running into the vehicle in front of it. The driver is required to keep their hands on the wheel and it will pull over and stop if they don't. Driver's have found ways to defeat the safety systems and abuse the cruise control feature to use it as a self-driving car. The driver is still fully responsible, not Tesla or the engineers, since the car is not sold as a self-driving vehicle.

When the self-driving cars and control systems are eventually fully implemented, it will be much safer than what we have now.

Yes, Tesla cars do have the necessary hardware and self-driving capabilities. Tesla owners are part of a huge data collection system that is being used to develop and refine self-driving technology. It is sold as a future feature that can be enabled after the government approves it for use.

 

[Jt-wrx]

The problem with Tesla's are the drivers, not the cars.

I agree with this statement partially, but this goes much further than "tesla drivers", this is those half the people we see on the road that shouldn't be now. Human nature is this, we want to be lazy, we want to trivialize it, we want the liability elsewere, we want it push button easy, we don't want to put in the work beyond the bare minimum required to pass the test the first time, we will find the easiest place to pass the test, then take our incompetence to the road to annoy everyone else forever. Nobody talks about the responsibility of it anymore, the reality of two tons of high speed death at your finger tips responsibility, the seriousness of operating a motor vehicle diminished one button at a time and tesla has really helped those who i'm talking about. And the market is the human race, almost can't blame tesla, give the people what they want, as a company you do this, cigarettes etc. even when it's bad for us. The govt. is the baby sitter, it should nuke this business immediately. Sophisticated cruise control my ass, cruise control itself is step one in in the problem, button one that lets you drop your guard and forget you're piloting two tons of death. A lot of us don't use it for that very reason, to stay alert, to stay ready, to be actively engaged in one very dangerous activity with not very forgiving results of mishaps.

Half the drivers are what you describe. But as those without licenses learn more about 'self drive' the more they are going to want to jump in. Hey, when it's as easy as a button...must be good.

 

[JT-NOOB]

It seems like heart failure may get you long before an evil robot car takes your meds...

Like it or not, self driving cars will be safer than humans and in the market within 10 years. Then we will have to fight to keep the freedom to drive ourselves because the data will be clear. Complain all you want, but know it's your time you're wasting.

Stop reading the clickbait, and come by for a ride in the Tesla. It might even prevent some uninformed opinions on the EV subject too!

 

[Jt-wrx]

lol, the amount of research i've done into this is nil, the time it took to run a google and grab you a few links, my opinions on it are just from me, when i google it then everything i suspect shows up

why is that i wonder? because it's pretty hard to get around the big picture of what a motor vehicle is, what it's capable of, my mind works from 10,000', i don't even know what click bait is? i've got a pretty good handle on what a human being is also, again, often this information is lost to the masses what we actually are (for good reason, above all else we are selfish...we don't really want to know the truth)...put the big picture of these two things together, motor vehicle & human being, that's all i did, and you're all welcome

whatever you just predicted in the next 10 years? good luck, this will be an ugly learning curve, 10 years of death for sure but don't bet against the babysitters will realize there's simply too many variables to self driving cars and put an end to it altogether, certainly for private ownership, maybe not big corporation but i digress, i got a bit of time so we shall see who's right, one things for sure, it's going to be ugly and scary and plenty are going to die for our stupidity, it's already begun, i feel sorry for all the families about to lose people to this already, but we bring it upon ourselves, human nature lol, we really know how to fix a problem

 

[Cape taco12]

I didn’t mean to start an unrelated discussion with my joke.

But for entertainments sake. In my opinion Self-driving vehicle ownership, liability, insurance is irrelevant in this context. If the vehicle exists to an acceptable standard that allow it on the road. all other aspects are lesser included factors. If the thing works, a system will be implemented to use it.

The problem is what is the “acceptable standard“? Better than 50%, 75% or 99% of human drivers? And how long before it’s affordable to the masses.

As vehicle enthusiasts we have a different outlook than the average person. We enjoy driving all the time and look forward to it. The average person sees being in the car as just more time between where they are and where they want to be.

Will the technology reach that point in the next 20 years? Maybe, maybe not.

I think the safety of the average human driver will only improve marginally at best of the next 20 years.

I hate giving up control and I hope they leave a lane for manually operated vehicles.

 

[Jt-wrx]

As vehicle enthusiasts we have a different outlook than the average person. We enjoy driving all the time and look forward to it. The average person sees being in the car as just more time between where they are and where they want to be.

Yes, fantastic point. And should those people who have zero interest in it, zero desire to take it seriously etc. should they even own a vehicle? This is where you look after the rest of your fellow humans responsibly and get yourself the uber app, a bicycle, a bus pass, learn to whistle (taxi)...anything but own and operate a 5000 lb death missile you have zero respect for.

You want to rope, better learn how to ride. This is what i mean, these 'destination' people should be heavily investing in big corporations that roll out fleets of well sorted autonomous whatevers (hopefully larger than single 5 seat vehicles) that can get them to their destinations, relieving them of their liabilities and need for proficiency to travel under their own competency lol. It's a giant joke. They look at vehicles, and the time in them, as a joke, a pain in the ass, evil necessity of life perhaps, a right...not a privilege. Sad we are...we have modes of transportation for these people already. They should be forced to use it. Actually...they should recognize this and in looking out for their fellow man, choose the mode of transportation most appropriate for them. You know, accountability, selfless, team player type shit. But we all know that's not humanity as a whole...our core is 'selfish af'.

It's great we are looking for options for these people. Truly mean that. I'm sorry but a self driving privately owned car is not the option for them. Especially not one that requires them to be skilled af in operating a motor vehicle in the first place...ready to take over control in an emergency situation. Most absurd thing i've ever heard asked of those who don't care...read majority.

One day we might have transporters and that will help everyone, beam me up scotty, the learning curve for that will be epic.

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