"OLD SCHOOL" manual hubs

[Old Skool]

I saw a video on You tube with "way of Life" high lighting a replacement axle with "MANUAL" Hubs I believe it was
A Dyna Track.
It got me thinking I believe Jeep should have brought back the manual Hubs for the reliability factor instead of the Electric central axle disconnect.
If your driving down the highway and you have a go cam facing your front axle U- joints they will still be spinning that has to be a considerable parasitic loss ??.
Once the warranty is up can a factory front axle be converted to manual hubs ??

I don't own a Gladiator but I plan on ordering a 2022 model as old school as possible
"6" speed MT Hard Top, spray in bed liner, "CRANK DOWN WINDOWS" Rear Limited slip
Engine block heater if available
Rear limited slip should be standard equipment !!!! Why would anyone want an open differential ???

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[LostWoods]

But manual hubs mean that when I want to go into 4wd I have to get out of the vehicle... what if there's mud? I might get my sneakers dirty!

I'd love a manual hub conversion but I wouldn't get my hopes up either. Best bet is buying the aftermarket axles or converting to a 1T.

 

[Jocww]

You could have the vaccum ones like the f250s

 

[mazeppa]

Jeep forgot about the manual hubs since the introduction of the 87 YJ, probably to keep cost down was the main reason. I would prefer manual hubs, but it is nice to be able to just shift to 4WD without getting out to engage the hubs when an unexpected situation arises and you need 4WD immediately. The Ford Super Duties with the manual transfer case shifters are the last of the OEM manual hubs left that I know of.

Edit:

Teraflex has/did have a JK manual hub conversion, it was expensive.

 

[timwiller]

But manual hubs mean that when I want to go into 4wd I have to get out of the vehicle... what if there's mud? I might get my sneakers dirty!

I'd love a manual hub conversion but I wouldn't get my hopes up either. Best bet is buying the aftermarket axles or converting to a 1T.

you can run around all you want with the front hubs locked providing you don't engage on a dry surface, if 4WD conditions you don't have to get out . plan ahead a little.

 

[Old Skool]

Back in "1986" a co-worker bought a CJ-7 it had manual hubs, he stated the owners manual recommended a brake in period to drive in 2 wheel drive with hubs locked and if you anticipated possibly having to shift into 4 wheel drive you could drive in 2wd with hubs locked

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I saw a video on You tube with "way of Life" high lighting a replacement axle with "MANUAL" Hubs I believe it was
A Dyna Track.
It got me thinking I believe Jeep should have brought back the manual Hubs for the reliability factor instead of the Electric central axle disconnect.
If your driving down the highway and you have a go cam facing your front axle U- joints they will still be spinning that has to be a considerable parasitic loss ??.
Once the warranty is up can a factory front axle be converted to manual hubs ??

I don't own a Gladiator but I plan on ordering a 2022 model as old school as possible
"6" speed MT Hard Top, spray in bed liner, "CRANK DOWN WINDOWS" Rear Limited slip
Engine block heater if available
Rear limited slip should be standard equipment !!!! Why would anyone want an open differential ???

Because not everyone will off-road with these - some will use them for towing, use them as a FREAKING TRUCK, which they ARE, etc.
there are times when LSDs aren't any help, and times when they are simply extra weight. I've had dozens with both. Yes, I normally order it, but hey, my Eagle has open differentials and it will crawl through some pretty tough snow and isn't too bad on ice where an LSD can cause problems in really slick ice.

As far as hubs - your "parasitic loss" is extremely miniscule. In fact, in the early 80s, AMC found out just how minimal the loss is. They did a lot of testing and experimenting.
Besides, you really are only spinning the axle shafts and the spider gears in the carrier - not much weight at all.
Funny someone would complain about that and then put on larger, heavier tires and wheels........ which because of their DIAMETER, and the extra weight being out there so far from the center or axis - THAT is a parasite.
Those spinning axles are nuttin'

I sure don't miss getting out of a truck in the muck or wet snow and ice - when you need it most, and engaging those damn hubs. Yes, you can engage them and leave them - but if the hubs are engaged, talk about parasitic loss because now you spin the carrier with ring gear, pinion and front drive shaft.

 

[Old Skool]

With the existing "CAD" setup ?? help me visualize this isn't only "1" axle half shaft disconnected ?? So if the Jeep is driving along in 2wd both U-joints at the wheels would be spinning as well as the front drive shaft ???

 

[ShadowsPapa]

With the existing "CAD" setup ?? help me visualize this isn't only "1" axle half shaft disconnected ?? So if the Jeep is driving along in 2wd both U-joints at the wheels would be spinning as well as the front drive shaft ???

If you had manual hubs and locked both hubs engaged (instead of the current FAD or Front Axle Disconnect) you WOULD be spinning the entire carrier and thus the front drive shaft.

With the current FAD setup, which happens to be almost exactly like used on my Eagle cars in the 80s, (except then it was vacuum, today it's electric) you disconnect or "break" the right axle between the carrier and the right wheel.
So the right wheel is spinning a short section of the right axle the same direction as the wheel is rotating.

The left wheel is turning the entire left axle, which in turn is spinning the left side carrier gear, which turns the spider gears on their shaft, and that turns the inside half of the right axle the opposite way.
With the Jeep Front Axle Disconnect, just like used by AMC in the 80s, you do not turn the carrier and thus don't turn the front driveshaft. Only the axle shafts themselves spin, nothing else (well, the small side gears in the differential carrier)

The carrier doesn't turn because the right inside axle half is free to spin the opposite way.
With the Jeep FAD, which AMC used on the Eagle cars starting about 81, only the axles turn. The carrier does not, the front drive shaft does not.
I can tie my front drive shaft solid, even strap it to something and drive around.

Hub disconnects mean no axle shaft is turning, but it's such a tiny tiny difference, it doesn't gain you squat to have full disconnects.
You really save almost nothing. There's little point. If it was any real savings, I'm sure Jeep would make that change if nothing else, for CAFE advantage.
There's literally a bigger change when people go to a larger tire than there would be full axle disconnect vs. the FAD system Jeep uses. Axles are small diameter, so the impact of spinning the axle is really small, while the impact of turning larger heavier tires is many times greater. They are huge flywheels.
Your bigger tires have impact on braking and taking off - it doesn't even notice the weight of the axles turning in there.

Here's one thing that hit me reading about the locking hub thing -
I hope no one is thinking about those hubs being any sort of a savings at all - then turning around next week and taking off their stock tires and putting larger tires on.
Now that would be a contradiction.

 

[Old Skool]

Thanks for the explanation?

 

[LostWoods]

you can run around all you want with the front hubs locked providing you don't engage on a dry surface, if 4WD conditions you don't have to get out . plan ahead a little.

It was a totally sarcastic shot about the average new Jeep buyer who has zero clue how to work manual hubs and would be more miffed it's more than a button push. I'm fully aware of how and when I can use them but there's a reason Jeeps don't have hubs anymore. They build for the average consumer and the average consumer is an idiot.

 

[LostWoods]

If you had manual hubs and locked both hubs engaged (instead of the current FAD or Front Axle Disconnect) you WOULD be spinning the entire carrier and thus the front drive shaft.

With the current FAD setup, which happens to be almost exactly like used on my Eagle cars in the 80s, (except then it was vacuum, today it's electric) you disconnect or "break" the right axle between the carrier and the right wheel.
So the right wheel is spinning a short section of the right axle the same direction as the wheel is rotating.

The left wheel is turning the entire left axle, which in turn is spinning the left side carrier gear, which turns the spider gears on their shaft, and that turns the inside half of the right axle the opposite way.
With the Jeep Front Axle Disconnect, just like used by AMC in the 80s, you do not turn the carrier and thus don't turn the front driveshaft. Only the axle shafts themselves spin, nothing else (well, the small side gears in the differential carrier)

The carrier doesn't turn because the right inside axle half is free to spin the opposite way.
With the Jeep FAD, which AMC used on the Eagle cars starting about 81, only the axles turn. The carrier does not, the front drive shaft does not.
I can tie my front drive shaft solid, even strap it to something and drive around.

Hub disconnects mean no axle shaft is turning, but it's such a tiny tiny difference, it doesn't gain you squat to have full disconnects.
You really save almost nothing. There's little point. If it was any real savings, I'm sure Jeep would make that change if nothing else, for CAFE advantage.
There's literally a bigger change when people go to a larger tire than there would be full axle disconnect vs. the FAD system Jeep uses. Axles are small diameter, so the impact of spinning the axle is really small, while the impact of turning larger heavier tires is many times greater. They are huge flywheels.
Your bigger tires have impact on braking and taking off - it doesn't even notice the weight of the axles turning in there.

Here's one thing that hit me reading about the locking hub thing -
I hope no one is thinking about those hubs being any sort of a savings at all - then turning around next week and taking off their stock tires and putting larger tires on.
Now that would be a contradiction.

To me the benefit of manual hubs isn't the wear on the drivetrain, it's the serviceability at the wheels. Most of those setups are a traditional 2-bearing hub setup instead of the sealed unit Jeeps currently have and carrying a set of bearings and a seal is a lot easier than a new hub (or two if they're different).

The benefit from drag is minimal and even wear is negligible since there's no load but I'm just a fan of being able to actually fix shit instead of just replacing entire assemblies.

 

[Matts4313]

It was a totally sarcastic shot about the average new Jeep buyer who has zero clue how to work manual hubs and would be more miffed it's more than a button push. I'm fully aware of how and when I can use them but there's a reason Jeeps don't have hubs anymore. They build for the average consumer and the average consumer is an idiot.

Hey, some of us arent idiots, we were just city-raised! Were learning, just need some guidance every now and then.

 

[mazeppa]

Manual hubs offer the ability of 2WD low range, handy for backing a trailer real slow without riding the clutch in a manual transmission. Just leave the hubs disengaged and put the transfer case in 4L low range.

Also the TJ and JK (and some of the last model year YJ) did not have any type of front axle disconnect.

 

[DankjeeP]

Because not everyone will off-road with these - some will use them for towing, use them as a FREAKING TRUCK, which they ARE, etc.
there are times when LSDs aren't any help, and times when they are simply extra weight. I've had dozens with both. Yes, I normally order it, but hey, my Eagle has open differentials and it will crawl through some pretty tough snow and isn't too bad on ice where an LSD can cause problems in really slick ice.

As far as hubs - your "parasitic loss" is extremely miniscule. In fact, in the early 80s, AMC found out just how minimal the loss is. They did a lot of testing and experimenting.
Besides, you really are only spinning the axle shafts and the spider gears in the carrier - not much weight at all.
Funny someone would complain about that and then put on larger, heavier tires and wheels........ which because of their DIAMETER, and the extra weight being out there so far from the center or axis - THAT is a parasite.
Those spinning axles are nuttin'

I sure don't miss getting out of a truck in the muck or wet snow and ice - when you need it most, and engaging those damn hubs. Yes, you can engage them and leave them - but if the hubs are engaged, talk about parasitic loss because now you spin the carrier with ring gear, pinion and front drive shaft.

One thing came to mind while reading your spot on explanation of the disconnect is the case where you go to a one piece axle shaft, as in chromo etc., then the manual hub would be a benefit. But then you are probably not too worried about mileage at that point anyway.

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