Sport vs Sport S

[PyrPatriot]

List the details/differences between the Sport and Sport S. At first I thought it was just as simple as the S having the Customer Package 24S (or something like that), but comparing specifications they have very different internals in some areas.

https://www.jeep.com/compare/detailed-chart.gladiator.2020.html

Suspension: Sport has the Normal Duty Suspension standard, the Sport S has the Normal Duty Plus Suspension standard.

Battery: Sport does not have the option for the 240amp alternator, only the 180amp. Which is weird because you get the 240amp with the Max Tow package, but Jeep's website/brochure doesn't even have it as an option

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[ShadowsPapa]

List the details/differences between the Sport and Sport S. At first I thought it was just as simple as the S having the Customer Package 24S (or something like that), but comparing specifications they have very different internals in some areas.

https://www.jeep.com/compare/detailed-chart.gladiator.2020.html

Suspension: Sport has the Normal Duty Suspension standard, the Sport S has the Normal Duty Plus Suspension standard.

Battery: Sport does not have the option for the 240amp alternator, only the 180amp. Which is weird because you get the 240amp with the Max Tow package, but Jeep's website/brochure doesn't even have it as an option

I thought that max tow was Sport S, not Sport - So it makes sense the Sport, not max tow, has the 180 since it also has the smaller fan motors. Lower draw because less cooling is needed without max tow. So to me the Sport having the lower alternator makes sense since it's Sport S that gets max tow - is that not correct?

 

[PyrPatriot]

You can get a base sport with the Max Tow, I thought

 

[giskard]

I'm pretty sure max tow has always been an option for the base Sport. The online config tool certainly lets you pick it.

 

[Murgatroid]

I'm pretty sure max tow has always been an option for the base Sport. The online config tool certainly lets you pick it.

When I ordered mine, you had to upgrade to the S to get the max tow.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

You can get a base sport with the Max Tow, I thought

If that is the case then it negates any differences between the two, it may appear.

 

[Jake]

I have a base Sport model and just opted to get the basic $250 hitch as I really don’t need any big capacity towing. I have a small Yakima Rack & Roll trailer that hauls 4 kayaks and they don’t weigh anything. So I really don’t know if you could get the max tow on a base Sport truck.

 

[Midwest Stinger]

I own a Base Sport with Max Tow. Mechanically, the Sport and Sport S are identical. The differences come when you start looking at amenities.
Base model Sports have manual locks & windows and the base 5” radio etc. while Sport S upgrades to power windows and locks with a button key fob. You also have more options that you can select with a Sport S when ordering.

 

[PyrPatriot]

I own a Base Sport with Max Tow. Mechanically, the Sport and Sport S are identical. The differences come when you start looking at amenities.
Base model Sports have manual locks & windows and the base 5” radio etc. while Sport S upgrades to power windows and locks with a button key fob. You also have more options that you can select with a Sport S when ordering.

How do you know that mechanically they are the same? That is, do you have a list of part numbers to compare (i.e. same part numbers for front springs of both Max Tow trims)? The reason I question the identicalness is Jeep could have put that the "Normal Duty Plus Suspension" as an option for the Sport and Standard for the Sport S, but they didn't even have it optioned. So while the rear springs may be the same, other suspension components may be different?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I own a Base Sport with Max Tow. Mechanically, the Sport and Sport S are identical. The differences come when you start looking at amenities.
Base model Sports have manual locks & windows and the base 5” radio etc. while Sport S upgrades to power windows and locks with a button key fob. You also have more options that you can select with a Sport S when ordering.

And the window tint is an option on the Sport, the radio is limited to the 5" according to their build a jeep site.

 

[Midwest Stinger]

How do you know that mechanically they are the same? That is, do you have a list of part numbers to compare (i.e. same part numbers for front springs of both Max Tow trims)? The reason I question the identicalness is Jeep could have put that the "Normal Duty Plus Suspension" as an option for the Sport and Standard for the Sport S, but they didn't even have it optioned. So while the rear springs may be the same, other suspension components may be different?

You’re right.... I didn’t see the difference there. I wonder what the difference really is? My guess would be a slightly softer shock on the S setup. Springs are more difficult to make in different rates and if Jeep was looking to keep as many parts the same across the model the easiest way to make the ride seem nicer would be shocks with a different set of internals. It could maybe even be slightly softer bushing or something like that, but other suspension components are just stamped or formed and wouldn’t make sense to replace. Does anyone know what this difference is?

 

[PyrPatriot]

You’re right.... I didn’t see the difference there. I wonder what the difference really is? My guess would be a slightly softer shock on the S setup. Springs are more difficult to make in different rates and if Jeep was looking to keep as many parts the same across the model the easiest way to make the ride seem nicer would be shocks with a different set of internals. It could maybe even be slightly softer bushing or something like that, but other suspension components are just stamped or formed and wouldn’t make sense to replace. Does anyone know what this difference is?

I have a full suspension from a Sport S with Max Tow in a box. If someone has a non-Max Tow suspension we can compare part numbers. Here are mine in the meantime

Pics 1 and 2 Front Springs
Pics 3 and 4 Rear Springs
Pics 5-7 Control Arm
Pic 8 and 9 Shocks

 

[ShadowsPapa]

You’re right.... I didn’t see the difference there. I wonder what the difference really is? My guess would be a slightly softer shock on the S setup. Springs are more difficult to make in different rates and if Jeep was looking to keep as many parts the same across the model the easiest way to make the ride seem nicer would be shocks with a different set of internals. It could maybe even be slightly softer bushing or something like that, but other suspension components are just stamped or formed and wouldn’t make sense to replace. Does anyone know what this difference is?

Why are springs so hard to make in different rates? We know the JTs have at least three different spring part numbers - Overland being the "softest" then the others. The max tow has a progressive spring - soft when unloaded then as the load increases and the spring compresses, it gets into the other coils.
I can order custom springs for my cars with a simple email and have them in days - and pretty cheap. (I can get new leaf springs made to stock specs or custom from Eaton-Detroit for my cars, too)
Remember AMC - the little car company that had money troubles? You should see the list of springs in the parts books I have - they even did what Jeep does today - different springs per SIDE. The springs occupy pages of the parts books. A single model may have several different possible springs.
The other suspension parts are track bar, links, etc. and those would vary with the vehicle height - since the Rubicon sits higher right out of the gate, it makes sense to have different suspension parts there, again, like the links that hold the differentials in place because the body is farther away from them - higher, and you need to keep the links parallel to the ground as much as possible.
Have done suspension and steering for decades.........

 

[Midwest Stinger]

Why are springs so hard to make in different rates? We know the JTs have at least three different spring part numbers - Overland being the "softest" then the others. The max tow has a progressive spring - soft when unloaded then as the load increases and the spring compresses, it gets into the other coils.
I can order custom springs for my cars with a simple email and have them in days - and pretty cheap. (I can get new leaf springs made to stock specs or custom from Eaton-Detroit for my cars, too)
Remember AMC - the little car company that had money troubles? You should see the list of springs in the parts books I have - they even did what Jeep does today - different springs per SIDE. The springs occupy pages of the parts books. A single model may have several different possible springs.
The other suspension parts are track bar, links, etc. and those would vary with the vehicle height - since the Rubicon sits higher right out of the gate, it makes sense to have different suspension parts there, again, like the links that hold the differentials in place because the body is farther away from them - higher, and you need to keep the links parallel to the ground as much as possible.
Have done suspension and steering for decades.........

It's not that they are hard to make in different rates, I'm just thinking about possible costs in tooling/ manufacturing and how that may be what the engineers would be driven to make only a couple of spring rates instead of one for every configuration of trim model. (edit...Jeep has a ton of spring rates. Just looked at Quadratec and there is a different rate spring per each 50 lbs of curb weight difference it seems like.)

Maybe AMC went broke because they had too many springs in inventory....lol!

I understand that the hard parts to the suspension would need to be different from Rubicon to Non-Rubi due to ride height, but there is also enough play in those pieces that those shouldn't need to be different just going from Sport to Sport S right? I mean, there are lift kits out there that swap only the lower front control arm and can get you up to 3" of lift without a lot of issue. If it was a big deal all lift kits would require all arms to be replaced right?
I'm not claiming to be a suspension guru or anything, just thinking of this from a mechanical background in manufacturing design and cost savings for why Jeep may make decisions.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

It's not that they are hard to make in different rates, I'm just thinking about possible costs in tooling/ manufacturing and how that may be what the engineers would be driven to make only a couple of spring rates instead of one for every configuration of trim model. (edit...Jeep has a ton of spring rates. Just looked at Quadratec and there is a different rate spring per each 50 lbs of curb weight difference it seems like.)

Maybe AMC went broke because they had too many springs in inventory....lol!

I understand that the hard parts to the suspension would need to be different from Rubicon to Non-Rubi due to ride height, but there is also enough play in those pieces that those shouldn't need to be different just going from Sport to Sport S right? I mean, there are lift kits out there that swap only the lower front control arm and can get you up to 3" of lift without a lot of issue. If it was a big deal all lift kits would require all arms to be replaced right?
I'm not claiming to be a suspension guru or anything, just thinking of this from a mechanical background in manufacturing design and cost savings for why Jeep may make decisions.

Yeah, there are kits that get 3" of lift with minimal parts - but I'd not use some of them. Unless you change other parts - you are getting into stupid territory if you value the vehicle and safety at all.
Due to the arc some of the parts swing in, you can go a couple of inches without a lot of trouble but then when the parts start traveling beyond the normal, you get bad angles. Just because something is out there and people use it doesn't mean it's wise or good. There's a lot of dumb stuff out there. Lift that front too much and your front axle is out of center. The steering geometry will be off.
Can you do it? Yeah.
Is it smart? No, not if you care how that thing handles a real emergency, hard braking in a turn, that sort of thing.
I'd not take one up over 2" without other parts being involved.
People do it all the time - fine, but not me. I know what CAN happen. And I care about tire life and my safety among other things.

Sport and Sport S heights are the same, or should be - but the ride is different, the load carrying is different - and that's due to brakes, springs and axles. The springs control how it rides with or without a load. The different payload ratings require different springs. Can't change that with shocks. Can't change how it rides with shocks. Just certain aspects. Slow the movement too much and you get a hard ride and take the travel out of the suspension. But you can change it with springs and not lose response to bumps.
Springs control the height, how much it drops with a load, how it rides with a load and more.
Why do really light car haulers not use springs while heavier trailers do use springs? - same principals in vehicle weights and spring rates, variable rate, dual rate and so on.
Shocks dampen or control spring oscillations. They don't so squat for ride height or certain other things. The springs in many vehicles even vary from left to right - there are reasons for this.
The Rubicon requires a lot more axle travel - so a longer spring. The Overland is made for ride quality - so a softer spring. Sport is made for, well, Sport - and towing, so it gets a variable rate spring. You can't handle those differences with shocks. Just can't do it. To make the sport max tow handle heavy payloads but ride nice when empty requires a very different spring than overland. And there's left and right springs.
You can't simply change the shocks and end up with an Overland ride. You can't take the Overland springs and put them under a sport and have it handle the expected load and ride like a Sport should by changing shocks.

I am a suspension person. I can't get into all of the differences here and all of the reason for the different springs and the science behind it all because that would require books - I spent an entire three months in college just on suspension and steering, on top of the weeks in high school, and then the years in tie field. It's like at work the boss was always wanting me to "train Deb so she can take over when you are gone". Yeah, right - put all of my background and decades of experience into a few hours? HAHAHA. ;-)
Anyway, springs are a CHEAP way in the end to handle a lot of things. Maybe you hit on a reason so many people gripe when they have to buy xx in order to get yy - it's how a company saves money- packages. There's more to it than the parts.

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