Riddle me this????

[BaileyW7]

No clue on the 8speed but my 4L60E does this when it’s low on trans fluid. It can’t build enough pressure and holds 3rd. Assuming you were low on transmission fluid.

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[sharpsicle]

Fluid changes are only an effective diagnostic tool if you evaluate what came out. You didn't state that at all, so it's impossible for us to tell you if the fluid change had a likely impact or not.

You need to pay more attention to what came out rather than what went in. Otherwise you have no baseline for any kind of comparisons. This is a common logic error when it comes to fluid changes... "I put in xxx oil and wow does it make a difference" ok sure, but what came out? Chances are it's not the addition of new oil that made the difference, but the removal of old cooked, abused, or otherwise past-due oil that was the real solution.

 

[Proximo]

Fluid changes are only an effective diagnostic tool if you evaluate what came out. You didn't state that at all, so it's impossible for us to tell you if the fluid change had a likely impact or not.

You need to pay more attention to what came out rather than what went in. Otherwise you have no baseline for any kind of comparisons. This is a common logic error when it comes to fluid changes... "I put in xxx oil and wow does it make a difference" ok sure, but what came out? Chances are it's not the addition of new oil that made the difference, but the removal of old cooked, abused, or otherwise past-due oil that was the real solution.

Thanks captain obvious. Common logic error when keyboard warrior accuses people of being stupid or something. Geez it was just a curiosity thread. Sorry i didn't write a novel for ya. Your type, are the reason so many do not post questions, issues, curiosity, or problems.

Enjoy your ham

 

[Proximo]

Theory of a gear head at work is, possibly the factory gear oil was breaking down after 40k miles, causing the transmission to work harder to turn gears, fooling the engine and transmission into thinking it needed more RPM's, causing the transmission to stay in each gear longer and never seeing 8th. Just thought I'd share with y'all, maybe give you excuse to change diff fluid

 

[sharpsicle]

Thanks captain obvious. Common logic error when keyboard warrior accuses people of being stupid or something. Geez it was just a curiosity thread. Sorry i didn't write a novel for ya. Your type, are the reason so many do not post questions, issues, curiosity, or problems.

Enjoy your ham

Whoa there, you asked if you changing the oil would've made the difference you described. I simply stated that you don't have enough information to know one way or the other, and what to do next time so you do have it. I didn't say you were stupid or anything of the sort. I gave a practical, fact-based answer to your question without spinning unfounded "what-if" tales.

If that causes you to not want to post or talk anymore, there's really not much else that can be done to help understand your question and its possible answers. I literally gave you a blueprint for success in the future on figuring out exactly what's going on. It's up to you where you go from there. We can all say "here's what happens if A, B, or C happens" but we can't say any of those apply to you.

To be clear, you asked "could such a simple [change] have such an amazing effect on automatic shifting and gear selection". You also stated the dealership wants to order a new transmission based on their diagnosis.

Based on that information, sure it's possible, but to try and tell you "yes that was it" based on this thread would be unfounded and misleading. Clearly there could be a lot more here and you could be experiencing a placebo effect reaction. In the end, you don't have any evidence that this was the issue or that you still won't need to replace the transmission for a different issue that's still there lurking.

Could it be the only problem? Yeah, anything's possible. Should you hang your hat on it? Absolutely not. Stay vigilant.

 

[Proximo]

Whoa there, you asked if you changing the oil would've made the difference you described. I simply stated that you don't have enough information to know one way or the other, and what to do next time so you do have it. I didn't say you were stupid or anything of the sort. I gave a practical, fact-based answer to your question without spinning unfounded "what-if" tales.

If that causes you to not want to post or talk anymore, there's really not much else that can be done to help understand your question and its possible answers. I literally gave you a blueprint for success in the future on figuring out exactly what's going on. It's up to you where you go from there. We can all say "here's what happens if A, B, or C happens" but we can't say any of those apply to you.

To be clear, you asked "could such a simple [change] have such an amazing effect on automatic shifting and gear selection". You also stated the dealership wants to order a new transmission based on their diagnosis.

Based on that information, sure it's possible, but to try and tell you "yes that was it" based on this thread would be unfounded and misleading. Clearly there could be a lot more here and you could be experiencing a placebo effect reaction. In the end, you don't have any evidence that this was the issue or that you still won't need to replace the transmission for a different issue that's still there lurking.

Could it be the only problem? Yeah, anything's possible. Should you hang your hat on it? Absolutely not. Stay vigilant.

Agreed. I apologize
I am very happy with the unexpected results from routine maintenance. This may be temporary, or some clogged trans valve opened up. No telling. I will get the new transmission before winter, because why not and the cold was the major factor when the trans would stay in 4th 5th 6th waaay too long when getting on the expressway. I'm talking like 4000+ rpm and not shifting
Oh, and both diff oils were darker than new. With the rear being much darker than the front of course

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Many manual transmissions use ATF. My mid-80's Ford used it.
Kevin

AMC had a hell of a time with the T5 and T4 and ATF. They recommended ATF, then engine oil, then something else like gear oil, then finally settled on their own concoction which smelled like bad fish oil.
After MOPAR raped and pillaged AMC, they came up with their own fluid that matched.
Pennzoil Syncromesh fluid works perfect in them
Since I stopped following the early books and manuals, and went with the revisions (very hard to find) and used lube that matches their spec. The best lube I've found for those transmissions matches AMC Part Number 8983 000 000 and my T5 shifts better than any similar transmission I've ever operated.

Anyway, different topic for sure...........

You won't have enough drag in the differentials to cause transmission shifting issues. No fluid is SOOOO much slicker than it will cause that much less "drag".

Theory of a gear head at work is, possibly the factory gear oil was breaking down after 40k miles, causing the transmission to work harder to turn gears, fooling the engine and transmission into thinking it needed more RPM's, causing the transmission to stay in each gear longer and never seeing 8th. Just thought I'd share with y'all, maybe give you excuse to change diff fluid

No way in the world. Yes, hypoid gears slide across each other more than most other types, but lube, even bad lube, isn't going to cause that much drag.
Think of the people who run the original lube in differentials for over 100,000 miles.............

Fact is - there's no magic hypoid lube. People love their favorites and will swear they get 5 more mpg, the radio works better, and they've gained 15 mph more on the top end.
There's just not that much difference. Marketing, hype on the web when people say every truck owner must use AMSOIL or Royal Purple or Lucas........ it's true some have additives that hold up better to heat and so on, but you aren't going to feel a difference unless your gear lube had sawdust in it or some grit.
If your lube caused so very much friction as to cause the transmission to not hit 8th, then it would be running hotter than heck. That's a whole lot of drag and you'd be heating up gears.

Don't get hooked on magic hypoid lube and the brands. You won't feel a difference between brands unless you really seriously cheap out.
From what I've read as far as testing, the top protection is from Motorcraft, Amsoil, Motul and Valvoline.
IMO, use any of the top brands that match the MOPAR specs for these and you'll be fine.

Interesting math on ATF changes.......... typically, depending on the transmission, when you change fluid, you are only changing 35-55% of the fluid. In other words, you are leaving from 45% to 2/3 of the old fluid in the transmission.
So, if you have a transmission where you can only drain out the pan and little else, perhaps getting 35% out - here's how it works out:

35% of the total drained each time = 7 changes to achieve 95% new ATF

40% of the total drained each time = 6 changes to achieve 95% new ATF

45% of the total drained each time = 5 changes to achieve 95% new ATF

50% of the total drained each time = 4 changes to achieve 94% new ATF
= 5 changes to achieve 97% new ATF
55% of the total drained each time = 4 changes to achieve 96% new ATF

 

[Gatorized]

From what I've read as far as testing, the top protection is from Motorcraft, Amsoil, Motul and Valvoline.
IMO, use any of the top brands that match the MOPAR specs for these and you'll be fine.

Interesting math on ATF changes.......... typically, depending on the transmission, when you change fluid, you are only changing 35-55% of the fluid. In other words, you are leaving from 45% to 2/3 of the old fluid in the transmission.
So, if you have a transmission where you can only drain out the pan and little else, perhaps getting 35% out - here's how it works out:

35% of the total drained each time = 7 changes to achieve 95% new ATF

40% of the total drained each time = 6 changes to achieve 95% new ATF

45% of the total drained each time = 5 changes to achieve 95% new ATF

50% of the total drained each time = 4 changes to achieve 94% new ATF
= 5 changes to achieve 97% new ATF
55% of the total drained each time = 4 changes to achieve 96% new ATF

is disconnecting a trans line and draining the old into a pan while adding new an acceptable way to get 100% replaced? Engine would have to be running , stop when you see new fluid coming out.

 

[Gvsukids]

AMC had a hell of a time with the T5 and T4 and ATF. They recommended ATF, then engine oil, then something else like gear oil, then finally settled on their own concoction which smelled like bad fish oil.
After MOPAR raped and pillaged AMC, they came up with their own fluid that matched.
Pennzoil Syncromesh fluid works perfect in them
Since I stopped following the early books and manuals, and went with the revisions (very hard to find) and used lube that matches their spec. The best lube I've found for those transmissions matches AMC Part Number 8983 000 000 and my T5 shifts better than any similar transmission I've ever operated.

Anyway, different topic for sure...........

You won't have enough drag in the differentials to cause transmission shifting issues. No fluid is SOOOO much slicker than it will cause that much less "drag".



No way in the world. Yes, hypoid gears slide across each other more than most other types, but lube, even bad lube, isn't going to cause that much drag.
Think of the people who run the original lube in differentials for over 100,000 miles.............

Fact is - there's no magic hypoid lube. People love their favorites and will swear they get 5 more mpg, the radio works better, and they've gained 15 mph more on the top end.
There's just not that much difference. Marketing, hype on the web when people say every truck owner must use AMSOIL or Royal Purple or Lucas........ it's true some have additives that hold up better to heat and so on, but you aren't going to feel a difference unless your gear lube had sawdust in it or some grit.
If your lube caused so very much friction as to cause the transmission to not hit 8th, then it would be running hotter than heck. That's a whole lot of drag and you'd be heating up gears.

Don't get hooked on magic hypoid lube and the brands. You won't feel a difference between brands unless you really seriously cheap out.
From what I've read as far as testing, the top protection is from Motorcraft, Amsoil, Motul and Valvoline.
IMO, use any of the top brands that match the MOPAR specs for these and you'll be fine.

Interesting math on ATF changes.......... typically, depending on the transmission, when you change fluid, you are only changing 35-55% of the fluid. In other words, you are leaving from 45% to 2/3 of the old fluid in the transmission.
So, if you have a transmission where you can only drain out the pan and little else, perhaps getting 35% out - here's how it works out:

35% of the total drained each time = 7 changes to achieve 95% new ATF

40% of the total drained each time = 6 changes to achieve 95% new ATF

45% of the total drained each time = 5 changes to achieve 95% new ATF

50% of the total drained each time = 4 changes to achieve 94% new ATF
= 5 changes to achieve 97% new ATF
55% of the total drained each time = 4 changes to achieve 96% new ATF

Good thing our transmission fluid is good for life.
https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...ion-fluid-change-interval-s-on-2021-jt.47662/

 

[Hootbro]

is disconnecting a trans line and draining the old into a pan while adding new an acceptable way to get 100% replaced? Engine would have to be running , stop when you see new fluid coming out.

I do not think that method would work well in a Gladiator. The Gladiator uses a licensed built ZF derived 8 Speed transmission than has a thermostat control transmission cooler.

Basically at a cold startup, about 1/3 of the fluid is cut off on the cooler side of the thermostat to allow the transmission side of the thermostat to run in a close loop to get the fluid up to temp quicker before the thermostat opens up and then there is full flow throw the transmission cooler.

Coupled with the fact that the transmission has a side fill plug access and not a traditional top down dipstick tube access, the old method of cracking open a transmission line letting it pump and adding fluid is safe or feasible.

While owners manual calls our fluid a lifetime fill, ZF still recommends a 50K - 80K fluid and filter replacement interval on most of their 8 speed designs depend on model. Unless doing a transmission replacement for catastrophic failure and the transmission is replace, ZF does not recommend any total system flush for normal fluid maintenance replacement that does maybe a 2/3 of total capacity replacement.

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