Thieves Use Proximity Key Fob Relays to Gain Access.

[Lunentucker]

Do the dirtbags have the ability to store the fob signals for future use? If so what is your strategy when going out say to food shop or get something to eat at a joint? Does the gladiator even work if the Key Fob isn't detected on the "driver"?

Doubtful, but by the time they stop at the chop shop it's a moot point.

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[Lunentucker]

As others have said in this thread, I have always welcomed someone to try and steal my vehicles; insurance is a beautiful thing and I will have my replacement nice and quick, if they asked I would just hand them the keys, why not? Not my problem anymore, they can deal with the consequences of a dangerous lifestyle, its not worth dirtying my hands trying to keep someone from taking my replaceable property.

That said, there are all kinds of doorbell camera videos of people going up to front doors with these large repeater devices, its certainly nothing new.

I would hope they would be helpful while they had my Jeep and maybe see if they can nail down the CEL / cylinder 5 misfires, check the rear axles for leaks, check all of the 8,000 nuts and bolts to be sure nothing else falls off, and make sure the steering stays as tight and sure as it's taken me several months to get it, before I get it back.

 

[joeym7]

Doubtful, but by the time they stop at the chop shop it's a moot point.

So in other words they have to grab the signal, get in the truck, and start it in "real-time". Then as the drive away, and they loose the stolen signal, the Truck will start complaining the "Fob left the building" but the truck would still drive?

 

[LostWoods]

Do the dirtbags have the ability to store the fob signals for future use? If so what is your strategy when going out say to food shop or get something to eat at a joint? Does the gladiator even work if the Key Fob isn't detected on the "driver"?

No these and all other modern fobs use a rolling code system like your newer garage door openers. It's an attack as old as RFID and rolling code and there's no real way to stop it aside from shielding your fob.

So in other words they have to grab the signal, get in the truck, and start it in "real-time". Then as the drive away, and they loose the stolen signal, the Truck will start complaining the "Fob left the building" but the truck would still drive?

Correct. As long as they don't shut the truck off, it won't shut itself off because it's a safety risk in the case the transmitter legitimately failed.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

well depends on the situation. most crimes like this are very targeted. technology is noramlly not so easy to match different manufacters implementaton, so its specifc to that radio and ive seen tests like this fail cause of slight changes. while im sure you have speed, i bet you wouldnt even know whats happening till you see the taillights.

Please do me a favor:
keep reminding me to stay on your good side.

 

[joeym7]

No these and all other modern fobs use a rolling code system like your newer garage door openers. It's an attack as old as RFID and rolling code and there's no real way to stop it aside from shielding your fob.



Correct. As long as they don't shut the truck off, it won't shut itself off because it's a safety risk in the case the transmitter legitimately failed.

What Rocket Scientist design this - LOL!

 

[LostWoods]

What Rocket Scientist design this - LOL!

The people prefer convenience over security. If you think this is bad you should look up when Nissan used the VIN as the API key for all over the air vehicle access. Cars never really needed security until they integrated all this tech then those engineers had no idea how to handle it.

Ironically, this is one case where phone-based is more secure a design because at least with an application using RFID/Bluetooth, you can lock it behind a PIN or something.

 

[BA33]

Looking into installing a "self-destruct mode" to thwart thieves. @Waynesoffroad had a pretty good idea for a prototype...

 

[Deleted member 47279]

Please do me a favor:
keep reminding me to stay on your good side.

This is nothing. The dark side is full of all kinds of fun. I’m no where near that level. I’m more of an security evangelist than pen tester now. No need for concern. Ima “good” guy hahaha

 

[LostWoods]

If you really want to be scared about this, you can make your own for about $20 and some bad soldering. We did this for a capstone project and stole the dean's car on a challenge.

Life is full of risk. Realize most of it is specifically targeted so don't be flashy and draw attention to yourself. If someone wants your truck, there's not a thing in the world that will stop someone with a flatbed, angle grinder, and a PTO winch.

 

[Deleted member 47279]

The people prefer convenience over security. If you think this is bad you should look up when Nissan used the VIN as the API key for all over the air vehicle access. Cars never really needed security until they integrated all this tech then those engineers had no idea how to handle it.

Ironically, this is one case where phone-based is more secure a design because at least with an application using RFID/Bluetooth, you can lock it behind a PIN or something.

Vin API keys keep me warm at night. I will never be unemployed lol

 

[ShadowsPapa]

This is nothing. The dark side is full of all kinds of fun. I’m no where near that level. I’m more of an security evangelist than pen tester now. No need for concern. Ima “good” guy hahaha

Then you won't mind showing me your hat? A color picture, please? LOL

I actually enjoyed the work, especially with the state. I got invited into meetings over at central IT as I thought a lot differently than most of the others, and saw things differently. It's often a bad side of my little "malady" but in that work, it was a help. I think they sort of wanted me to move over there as central IT took over operations for most of the other agencies, to try to centralize things and cut costs, but I was ready to move on......... another feature of my stuff going on.

 

[Lunentucker]

So in other words they have to grab the signal, get in the truck, and start it in "real-time". Then as the drive away, and they loose the stolen signal, the Truck will start complaining the "Fob left the building" but the truck would still drive?

I think it likely would. I can't imagine the lawyers allowing them to make a vehicle that would disable itself because of a FOB failure.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

We did this for a capstone project and stole the dean's car on a challenge.

Technology wasn't as much fun when I was in college - all we did was take the double steel doors of the building apart, go get the administrator's car, carry it into the building and down the hall and sat it down just outside his office. He wasn't amused, but he was quite stern as to what our next feat should be.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I think it likely would. I can't imagine the lawyers allowing them to make a vehicle that would disable itself because of a FOB failure.

Imagine that happening in the middle of rush traffic in certain cities, or you are making it through an intersection without a lot of time to spare, or are crossing RR tracks and...............

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