Tire imbalance or death wobble?

[gearhead22]

I bought my gladiator a little over a month ago. It came with a spacer lift and 37’s. Drove it 3 hours home with no issues. Decided I wanted to replace the factory suspension and spacer with a full suspension kit. I installed a Metalcloak 3.5” game changer lift. For about 2 weeks after the lift was installed it drove great, no complaints. Then I started to get a shake in the steering wheel around 50-60mph. My first thought was tire imbalance but the jeep had 50k on the factory ball joints as well as tie rod and drag link and nothing changed with the tires. I did the steering wheel test with the vehicle off and noticed the drag link had the slightest amount of play at the pitman arm, so I replaced the ball joints with dynatracs, wheel bearing/hubs and subsequently the tie rod, drag link, stabilizer and stabilizer bracket (moves the stabilizer mount to the track bar frame bolt) with Metalcloak. I still had the shake, so I moved the tires around thinking maybe they got switched when I did the initial lift install, but knowing there wasn’t a shake for 2 weeks after the install, figured why not try it. At first I thought it was better but it still shakes and shakes even worse. It’s not as violent as some of the death wobble videos I’ve seen, but it’s pretty rough. I do believe the whole jeep is shaking. The tires have balance beads in them, unsure how many ounces as they’ve been in there since before my ownership. Which kind of makes me worried as the beads unlike traditional weights, won’t fall off so I wouldn’t think the tires became unbalanced? They used to drive as smooth as could be. I’m toe’d in approximately 1/16” and caster at 6 degrees driver 6.4 degrees passenger.

IMO this is either less severe death wobble, or sever tire imbalance. It’s not as subtle as typical tire imbalance I’ve experienced in the past, but it’s not as violent as the worst death wobble videos I’ve seen.

The weird part also is that it occurs around 45-60 now, so far every time I’m in that mph range it has done it, but not always at the same mph. Some times it’ll happen at 45, or maybe 55. Slow down some and it goes away, speed up some and it also goes away or gets less severe.

I’m kind of at a loss since if this is death wobble, literally every part has been replaced already and if anything it’s gotten worse. I find it hard to believe the tires have become that unbalanced in 1 month. And I’ve had them swapped around enough by now to know if any were better balanced then another and there’s really no change by moving them.

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[gearhead22]

I didn’t think much of it until now as I’m chasing down a shake/wobble while driving.

I noticed with the new ball joints installed, and just the knuckle connected to the ball joints (no axle shaft, wheel bearing etc), the knuckle has no resistance when moving side to side. It just rotates side to side effortlessly. Is this normal? Should there be resistance when rotating it side to side?

 

[willys 41]

First thing get rid of the balancing beads.

Take your jeep to a competent shop like a 4x4 shop that balances large tires all the time.

As recommended by my 4x4 shop and Metalcloak set your toe at 0 to 1/16 out. This can help with shimmy or what you think is unbalanced tire. It eliminated 98% of my shimmy.

I have been balancing my own tire on my coats machine for the last 40 years. The last time I got tires for my Tundra I got lazy and had the tire shop balance them. It shook all the way to work. Got to work and put them on the machine and they were out by as much as 3.5oz.

 

[Charles 236]

Definitely find a competent tire shop that can balance oversize tires. A road force balance will tell how much imbalance force is there, and how to match mount the tires to the rims to minimize the road force. In effect, you will be having the tire/rim assembly balanced and blueprinted. It often makes a very noticeable difference.

 

[gearhead22]

A local shop handles tires of all sizes regularly. I have an APPT for Thursday so we will see if the balance beads were the culprit. I’ll have them removed and weights installed. You can tell weights were on these wheels at some point. Not sure if it was with these tires or different ones but if it was with these that may be why beads are in there now. Maybe they couldn’t get them balanced before.

I will try toe out if the balance doesn’t fix it.

 

[Janster]

A local shop handles tires of all sizes regularly. I have an APPT for Thursday so we will see if the balance beads were the culprit. I’ll have them removed and weights installed. You can tell weights were on these wheels at some point. Not sure if it was with these tires or different ones but if it was with these that may be why beads are in there now. Maybe they couldn’t get them balanced before.

I will try toe out if the balance doesn’t fix it.

As for the balancing beads… It depends on what type/kind they used. Balancing beads can vary in size - from marbles to dust-like. Some beads can/will clump up when they get wet. You can lose some of the beads if you air down a lot and/or have a flat tire.

You mentioned you rotated the tires?? Did you see any difference with the wobble/vibrations after rotating the tires? And/or…. you weren’t able to narrow it down to ONE tire wheel?? You could also have a bent wheel….

If the tires, balancing beads, or a bent wheel were the problem….you should’ve been able to detect that when you rotated the tires - and narrowed it down one/two wheels. It’s highly unlikely that all 4 tires/wheels or beads had the same issue at the same time.

 

[gearhead22]

As for the balancing beads… It depends on what type/kind they used. Balancing beads can vary in size - from marbles to dust-like. Some beads can/will clump up when they get wet. You can lose some of the beads if you air down a lot and/or have a flat tire.

You mentioned you rotated the tires?? Did you see any difference with the wobble/vibrations after rotating the tires? And/or…. you weren’t able to narrow it down to ONE tire wheel?? You could also have a bent wheel….

If the tires, balancing beads, or a bent wheel were the problem….you should’ve been able to detect that when you rotated the tires - and narrowed it down one/two wheels. It’s highly unlikely that all 4 tires/wheels or beads had the same issue at the same time.

I wish I had other wheels to try just to rule it out but I don’t. I didn’t really notice a difference per se. It has gotten worse, which is weird since all normal death wobble contributing parts have been replaced

 

[Artsifrtsi]

since all normal death wobble contributing parts have been replaced

Except the tires. DW is a very high percentage caused by imbalance in tires, then accentuated by loose/damaged/weak parts that allow the oscillations to persist and increase. Since the wobble you have got worse when you rotated the tires, my bet is on the tires.

 

[gearhead22]

Except the tires. DW is a very high percentage caused by imbalance in tires, then accentuated by loose/damaged/weak parts that allow the oscillations to persist and increase. Since the wobble you have got worse when you rotated the tires, my bet is on the tires.

That is the remaining piece. We will see Thursday when they get taken off, and rebalanced with actual weights. If that doesn’t fix it idk what to do

 

[ShadowsPapa]

First thing get rid of the balancing beads.

Take your jeep to a competent shop like a 4x4 shop that balances large tires all the time.

This, 100%

Doing a search here will show you that multiple members have had bad luck with the beads, and getting rid of them helped resolve problems. I'd bet it's against/for the beads about 9/1

If you have a tire out of balance, and any of the below are not right, it's going to shift you into DW.

Whether or not you "need" or will be better off with toe out vs. tow in will vary with your wheel centerline, scrub radius and other factors. If you have used spacers or have swapped to different wheels, very much larger tire diameter and width, you throw off the geometry and have to compensate with other settings.

Tire imbalance will be felt all the time, it doesn't come and go (balance beads change that - they keep moving around). But a normal balance method, it's either right, or off at all times. An imbalanced tire can cause DW - real DW is "triggered" and won't disappear simply by slowing down just a little bit.

 

[gearhead22]

This, 100%

Doing a search here will show you that multiple members have had bad luck with the beads, and getting rid of them helped resolve problems. I'd bet it's against/for the beads about 9/1

If you have a tire out of balance, and any of the below are not right, it's going to shift you into DW.

Whether or not you "need" or will be better off with toe out vs. tow in will vary with your wheel centerline, scrub radius and other factors. If you have used spacers or have swapped to different wheels, very much larger tire diameter and width, you throw off the geometry and have to compensate with other settings.

Tire imbalance will be felt all the time, it doesn't come and go (balance beads change that - they keep moving around). But a normal balance method, it's either right, or off at all times. An imbalanced tire can cause DW - real DW is "triggered" and won't disappear simply by slowing down just a little bit.

Thanks for the info! Currently I’m running 17x9 -12 wheels and 37’s. They’ve been on there since I bought it, as well as the balancing beads. My thought was since the beads move around that tire shake could change at different speeds as opposed to traditional weights where it tends to happen at a particular speed.

Luckily I was able to capture it on video. This is the worse it has done it. It shakes the whole jeep pretty good. But isn’t as violent as the true DW I got to experience in our f250 work truck.

 

[Splenda]

I run 10 oz of ceramic balancing beads in each tire. I installed them myself when I mounted my tires on my beadlock wheels. I've run up to 95 MPH without any shake at all. I went the balancing bead route because I didn't want the headache of having tire shops tell me they won't balance beadlocks.

 

[Janster]

Luckily I was able to capture it on video. This is the worse it has done it. It shakes the whole jeep pretty good. But isn’t as violent as the true DW I got to experience in our f250 work truck.

You should mount a GOPro looking at the front axle and / steering components.

I doubt your steering wheel would shake that violently if the problem was in the rear wheels/tires.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

You should mount a GOPro looking at the front axle and / steering components.

I doubt your steering wheel would shake that violently if the problem was in the rear wheels/tires.

One of the most hilarious youtube videos out there is a guy who did just that, got into a DW and saw the engine shaking and, holy lack of understanding cause and effect, he said the engine shaking was causing his wobble. I literally laughed when I read that. He was telling people check your engine mounts, your shimmy or wobble may be caused by the engine shaking.
The intelligence of YT, I guess.

I'd aim that sucker at 3 places - aim toward the right front area, then a drive with it aimed to the left, and then one concentrating on tie rod and drag link area. See if it's possible to see something happening BEFORE it goes into full three alarm wobble.

 

[Camaroboi13]

Ironically mine does this same thing every time I rotate my tires and re grease my MC HD front end. It’ll shimmy at 55mph for the first few hundred miles, then it goes away.

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