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Tow package and Max tow package are NOT the same!

ShadowsPapa

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I just appreciated the Made in Australia bit and the fantastic support....... it's worth money to me.
And I liked the fact it's a standard network cable connecting the box to the dash control, any Cat 5 cable or better would easily work. I may take mine apart again and use a shorter cable with straight RJ45 ends instead of theirs to tidy up and not have a coil of cable in the dash. Also the 90 degree end on the one end was less than ideal for my specific install - both ends straight would do better, so I'll likely change that cable. I've got a box of cables to choose from. That means a person could install the dash control thing 10 feet from the box if they wanted, just switch cables.

I do wish I would have used the Curt front receiver as they include the brackets for the front shield, the one I bought did not.
But Curt was rather curt when I asked about obtaining their brackets. No discussion, no nuttin, just a quick "no, they only work with our hitch" which is BS because they are BRACKETS that bolt on. But they won't sell them.
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whiteglad

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I bought the DrawTite front receiver hitch and simply cut off the ends off the factory front plate with a sawzall to mount the plastic air dam afterwards.
You will be hard pressed to find a trailer capable of towing the JD that is much under 2500 lb. Most of them are made with channel iron on its side, not the best for weight vs. capacity. You want steel box tubing or aluminum for the frame if weight matters.
 

ShadowsPapa

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I bought the DrawTite front receiver hitch and simply cut off the ends off the factory front plate with a sawzall to mount the plastic air dam afterwards.
You will be hard pressed to find a trailer capable of towing the JD that is much under 2500 lb. Most of them are made with channel iron on its side, not the best for weight vs. capacity. You want steel box tubing or aluminum for the frame if weight matters.
I ended up making brackets - couldn't bring myself to cutting up that metal backing plate that was behind the plastic shield.

I believe my 18' aluma trailer has two 3500 pound axles under it.
Has basically the same rating as my all-steel trailer had.
A friend has the exact same trailer and hauls a small back hoe or a skid loader on his from time to time.
I think they said mine was rated 7,000 pounds, more than enough for my cars - even my wife's Grand Cherokee is about 5400 pounds, then add the 1500 of the trailer, I'll call it 1600 with spare tire and jack and such, there's 7,000 pounds - but that's more than my JT can haul by 1,000 pounds so I don't worry!
 

whiteglad

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I understand--I have made a lot of custom brackets over the years. For this situation, I felt it was a lot easier to get the spacing right by using the ends of the factory part, and tightening the bolts mounting them to the frame while making sure the distance between the caged nuts for the plastic air dam was exactly the same as stock. I also bent the tabs of the nuts-on-sticks from Draw Tite to wrap around and stabilize the bracket ends further.
 

ShadowsPapa

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I understand--I have made a lot of custom brackets over the years. For this situation, I felt it was a lot easier to get the spacing right by using the ends of the factory part, and tightening the bolts mounting them to the frame while making sure the distance between the caged nuts for the plastic air dam was exactly the same as stock. I also bent the tabs of the nuts-on-sticks from Draw Tite to wrap around and stabilize the bracket ends further.
Looking back - I likely should have done the same......... I looked at the metal piece laying overhead in my garage loft -so why did I save that again?
 

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Rubicon comes with the 4.10 ratio - period. No biggy, doesn't mean anything about towing. Rubicon JT has always had that ratio. They have a towing package available, too, but not the "max tow".
The larger alternator is becauase it's a Rubicon, not because of "max tow" - all of the electric accessories, like the aux switches, electric axle locks, electric sway bar disconnect, etc. - so it's going to need that.
It’s the same as max tow in a sport S
It has the engine cooling 4.10 gears and larger alternator that’s all max tow is in a sport s right??
 

ShadowsPapa

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It’s the same as max tow in a sport S
It has the engine cooling 4.10 gears and larger alternator that’s all max tow is in a sport s right??
No, it's not. Not the same at all. People keep thinking it's a matter of a half dozen parts and suddenly you have max tow.
The Sport S is lighter, smaller tires, and has springs made for the payload and towing (tongue weight). The Rubicon is heavier, has larger heavier tires and wheels and doesn't have the springs for max tow.

It's not a simple parts swap as was discussed last fall/winter.
 

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No, it's not. Not the same at all. People keep thinking it's a matter of a half dozen parts and suddenly you have max tow.
The Sport S is lighter, smaller tires, and has springs made for the payload and towing (tongue weight). The Rubicon is heavier, has larger heavier tires and wheels and doesn't have the springs for max tow.

It's not a simple parts swap as was discussed last fall/winter.
And as you have pointed out, Jeep has not been open about all the changes at each level, at least as far as the suspension goes.
 

whiteglad

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Sport S tires are Bridgestones weighing 34 lb. Rubicon Falkens weigh 62.8 lb. each and have much higher inertia due to the weight and larger diameter (32.8" vs. 31.5"). That is why I chose Falkens in 255-80-17E which are 33.1" but weigh only 52.5 lb each for a compromise to address trail and towing usages.
 

ShadowsPapa

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Sport S tires are Bridgestones weighing 34 lb. Rubicon Falkens weigh 62.8 lb. each and have much higher inertia due to the weight and larger diameter (32.8" vs. 31.5"). That is why I chose Falkens in 255-80-17E which are 33.1" but weigh only 52.5 lb each for a compromise to address trail and towing usages.
As I recall, the stock Rubicon wheels with tires (the Falken A/T tires, not the optional M/T tires) weight about 80-82 pounds each. That's 320 pounds for wheels and tires, a whole lot of unsprung weight, and a lot of weight to get spinning under load.

Assuming your weights are correct, that's a whopping 62-34=28 pounds PER TIRE difference.
Over 100 pounds just in tires plus the Sport tires will be easier to get moving with the 4.10 ratio.

There's a whole lot to consider when comparing models and towing and payload. Too many people try to say it's just axles or just springs or just this or that.
Engineers every one of 'em, know better than Jeep.
 

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whiteglad

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I got the wheel weight of 23 lb. on a digital bathroom scale. Tire weights from Discount Tire site and Falken site. I thought about staying with 245-75-17 but getting Falkens, but the SL at 41.4 lb. did not inspire confidence for the very rocky trails I take, and the E rated at 51.4 lb are almost the same as the 255s. The Rubi AT3W tires and wheels should come up to about 86 lb. My 255s come to 75.5 lb, vs. 57 lb. for the stock max tow wheels and tires. The good news is that the Falkens did very well for me on the hunting trails this year, and mpg is the same, as far as I can tell, as the stock setup.
 

ShadowsPapa

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I got the wheel weight of 23 lb. on a digital bathroom scale. Tire weights from Discount Tire site and Falken site. I thought about staying with 245-75-17 but getting Falkens, but the SL at 41.4 lb. did not inspire confidence for the very rocky trails I take, and the E rated at 51.4 lb are almost the same as the 255s. The Rubi AT3W tires and wheels should come up to about 86 lb. My 255s come to 75.5 lb, vs. 57 lb. for the stock max tow wheels and tires. The good news is that the Falkens did very well for me on the hunting trails this year, and mpg is the same, as far as I can tell, as the stock setup.
OK I likely recalled the 82 or so incorrectly. I knew it was at least 80 pounds per wheel with tire.
86 each is 344 pounds -a lot heavier than the stock Sport S setup.
 

Brraaapp

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No, it's not. Not the same at all. People keep thinking it's a matter of a half dozen parts and suddenly you have max tow.
The Sport S is lighter, smaller tires, and has springs made for the payload and towing (tongue weight). The Rubicon is heavier, has larger heavier tires and wheels and doesn't have the springs for max tow.

It's not a simple parts swap as was discussed last fall/winter.
I don’t believe it’s a parts swap.
besides the engine cooling,gears,alternator what else makes it max tow? Springs?
 

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I don’t believe it’s a parts swap.
besides the engine cooling,gears,alternator what else makes it max tow? Springs?
springs, axles, and tire size. And over all weight of the truck. The rubi is heavier. So that eats up payload and towing weight.
 

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I don’t believe it’s a parts swap.
besides the engine cooling,gears,alternator what else makes it max tow? Springs?
Suspension - springs
Unsprung weight - Sport S is lighter as it has lighter tires/wheels, no skid plates, etc. This allows it to tow more as the alternator, cooling, gears, and axles are the same. More weight = engine working harder to begin with.

At the end of the day, you need to come to terms that the Rubi will not tow as much as a Sport S Max Tow. It's that simple I do not understand why this is something to argue about. If you're just confused, i get it. But thats just how it is.

@ShadowsPapa is completely correct in what he has been saying this entire thread. Although the Rubi comes with MOST of what the max tow package has, the weight and spring difference are what make up the additional capacity of the Sport S.
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