towing safely with known death wobble?

[pcrawfordpt]

if I new how to check things to spec I would, I'm not a car guy. where's my nephew when you need him.

4wd shop it is then...

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[Minty JL]

Don’t do it until you fix your truck, pay out of pocket if you need to. Use a good 3rd party shop if you need to, but do not tow with death wobble. The $1,500 out of pocket now will look small if you lose your truck, trailer, loved ones, legal troubles etc. Some might say you’ll be fine, but I take life safety seriously.

Then, watch your oil, trans and coolant temps and act accordingly.

100%

Short cuts will fuck you in the end one way or another.

Also, you can submit a reimbursement of you fix it. Jeep sent me a form for my '19 JLUR

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Sorry, contrary to what some non-engineers claim, a worn steering damper/stabilizer can't possibly initiate DW. It's just impossible for an item that sits there with no ability to push or pull on its own can initiate it. You can drive around without one if things are done right.
Explain the exact way that a steering damper can CAUSE DW.
some state that if you have a Jeep that doesn't have DW at all, that a worn damper can cause DW if you install a worn one. I'd love to see the technical explanation of that.

To say it can "cause" DW is to say that if you don't have DW even without one, putting on a worn one could cause DW - that's just not possible. the most that can happen is a worn one will not mask DW - and I suspect that's where the internet lore is coming from - hey, mine is worn and I have DW so it must be causing it.

It's not at all an "integral part of the system". It was put in as a bandaid, and to deal with bump steer.
There's a lot of Jeep people who don't even have one installed.

I've posted long tech stuff with detailed explanations at least a half dozen times from the very engineers who worked at Jeep, and the owner of a very well known 4x4 performance shop.
It's not integral in any way. It mitigates issues, that's it. it wasn't even included until the 1970s so can't be called integral.

From Norm Layton (look up his name) -

And this from a suspension/steering engineer who works for Chrysler and even truck companies -

Often, the "set to" torque spec isn't the same as "check it later" number.
You'll find some fasteners have two specs.

 

[nixit]

I'm on my 5th jeep, and each of them has had rounds of DW one or more times. The steering damper gets a lot of hate because the dealer always thinks that will fix it without thoroughly inspecting the other elements of the axle locating system. However, contrary to what many will tell you, a worn damper can initiate DW. It is an integral part of the system and it needs to be doing its job. The OE damper on these is kind of minimal for the job it is tasked with when it is fresh out of the box. My truck is heavy, and I drive it hard off-road, and I was not getting 10k out of them. The dealer kept swapping them while it was under warranty. I think I paid $ 170 for a simple Fox 2.5 damper, and it is just a much better piece of kit in all respects. It has about 20k on it now.

That said, it is unlikely that a new damper will fix your problem. As others have said, you need to check the entire front end. There are about 15 joints in the front end, and any one of them can be the cause, or it can be a combination of wear across multiple parts. Proper diagnosis is not generally all that hard. Get a helper to move the steering wheel back and forth for you, and just get under there and put your hands on each joint to feel for play. For some reason, my jeep burns up the joint at Pitman arm. So you can start there. It is easy to reach. The pan hard bar is the other one that is a common failure. The control arms on my jeep are still in reasonable shaper after 55k miles, so those seem to last better, but they can contribute.

None of these parts are hard to get or very hard to change out in your driveway (or on the trail). I can't see paying a shop that kind of money... not to say they are ripping you off, but I'd be curious to see what they were going to do for that much. It seems like that top-end quote should cover all new arms, drag link, pan hard, and an alignment.

yes, the top end quote, from what he mentioned was a replace of everything, including labor.

I hope it's not that much. and kind of excited that everyone here, and the 4x4 place, are confident that it can be fixed.

 

[PuddleJumper]

it is a steering stabilizer, I can't remember what it's called, and I'm trying to find my notes. I reached back out to my case officer asking what it is. from what they say, the part is on backorder until at least august 21, 2024. the local jeep service center also "claims" it will fix the issue.

why does this happen on many jeep vehicles?

Yes.

 

[nixit]

100%

Short cuts will fuck you in the end one way or another.

Also, you can submit a reimbursement of you fix it. Jeep sent me a form for my '19 JLUR

the reimbursement is promising. do you know how I can get the form?

 

[nixit]

Sorry, contrary to what some non-engineers claim, a worn steering damper/stabilizer can't possibly initiate DW. It's just impossible for an item that sits there with no ability to push or pull on its own can initiate it. You can drive around without one if things are done right.
Explain the exact way that a steering damper can CAUSE DW.
some state that if you have a Jeep that doesn't have DW at all, that a worn damper can cause DW if you install a worn one. I'd love to see the technical explanation of that.

To say it can "cause" DW is to say that if you don't have DW even without one, putting on a worn one could cause DW - that's just not possible. the most that can happen is a worn one will not mask DW - and I suspect that's where the internet lore is coming from - hey, mine is worn and I have DW so it must be causing it.

It's not at all an "integral part of the system". It was put in as a bandaid, and to deal with bump steer.
There's a lot of Jeep people who don't even have one installed.

I've posted long tech stuff with detailed explanations at least a half dozen times from the very engineers who worked at Jeep, and the owner of a very well known 4x4 performance shop.
It's not integral in any way. It mitigates issues, that's it. it wasn't even included until the 1970s so can't be called integral.

From Norm Layton (look up his name) -

And this from a suspension/steering engineer who works for Chrysler and even truck companies -

Often, the "set to" torque spec isn't the same as "check it later" number.
You'll find some fasteners have two specs.

wow, thanx for the clarification on this. I don't know much about vehicles, and I wouldn't think a thing call "damper" would cause it.

appointment to have the 4x4 place inspect the issue is wednesday.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

wow, thanx for the clarification on this. I don't know much about vehicles, and I wouldn't think a thing call "damper" would cause it.

appointment to have the 4x4 place inspect the issue is wednesday.

We'll be watching. It's always interesting to see the varied accounts of the varied things that are found by the various shops.
(wow, that sounds weird)

 

[Labswine]

There's gotta be something loose in the front end that's allowing any vibrations to get multiplied into the dreaded Death Wobble.

I had a '96 Grand Cherokee Laredo that I put a 3" Rusty's lift on, then took it to get aligned. Left the alignment shop which aligned it to factory specs, hit a manhole cover and got the dreaded death wobble...my Jeep shook like a dog that had just gotten out of the water. I went home (carefully) and called Rusty's and had them send me their specs for a front end alignment with their lift. Took it back and got it re-aligned to Rusty's specs. Drove out, one manhole cover and, again the wet dog shaking. I pulled the lift kit and got it aligned once again back to factory specs, and all was okay. Found out later that the vehicle was in an accident (before I bought it) and things were not quite kosher after that and the lift exacerbated everything. Without the lift, all was okay and I drove the thing to over 240K miles.

Everything I've ever read about lifts and avoiding death wobble is that EVERYTHING in the front end HAS TO BE BUBBA TIGHT or, anything that's even slightly loose with result in death wobble. So, shortening the long story, since you're not lifted, there must be something in the front end that isn't as tight as it should be letting the 'wet dog' shaking commence.

Just my $0.02 ($0.03 Canadian).

 

[Lunentucker]

hello all our first camping trip is coming up, and within the last 6 months, my tow vehicle, a 2020 jeep gladiator sport w/max tow package, has developed the death wobble, and the (recalled) factory part is on indefinite (maybe aug/sept 2024?) back order through the dealer. I've done all the other required suggestions to help alleviate the death wobble.


I have a couple of questions, which I hope answer will relieve some of my 2024 camping season anxiety.


1) should I be concerned/is it safe to tow a travel trailer (2020 geopro 19qb) when the towing vehicle is know to have the death wobble?


2) any suggestions/tips on towing through the PA, WV mountains, like speed/rpm while driving up and down the mountains?


thanx for any info.

cheers,
--nixit

Where are you?

 

[nixit]

Where are you?

in va.

 

[Lunentucker]

in va.

I'm in Lunenburg County. I have a factory stabilizer, garage, and all the tools necessary to find and fix the issue.
I'm retired and have the time if you want to bring it by for a checkup.
You can have the stabilizer. I have no use for it. It has about 2k miles on it.

 

[Minty JL]

the reimbursement is promising. do you know how I can get the form?

I got a letter from FCA in the mail.

Maybe reach out to @JeepCares

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