Traded 41 day old 4xe for gladiator rubicon

[hjdca]

Yes the issue was after trying to get it out of FORM unsuccessfully is was -17 at the time. I brought it into my work shop for the day. Because I had heard about this gaining level on the dip stick I decided to check mine.
I was 1/2 inch over the full mark!!! I freaked out and called my dealer. They told me do not start the gas engine. I tried the electric mode and it worked!! Remember it was in a heated shop all day. I backed out drove 2 blocks in -17 and bam!!! The gas engine kicks in and it is very unhappy. Tells me electric mode is unavailable.
Brought to dealer in the morning and they confirmed that gas and moisture were in the oil pan!!! They changed the oil and call Jeep for guidance.
Jeep tells them, the vehicle is operating as it is supposed to.
they protest explaining the issue and are told again, the vehicle is operating the way it is supposed to!!!!
I traded it 2 days later, they sent it to a dealer down in Florida!!! Lol
It’s a dirty little secret about these phevs and the gas in the oil issue. Now I know better!!!
Cheers

Thanks for all the info. Your explanations were very clear. This extra gas getting past the rings also washes the oil off the piston holes and starts wearing out the special honing that is done to keep the rings sealed. After 10K, 20K, 30K miles of this kind of treatment, the engine will start eating oil. What a nightmare.

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[ShadowsPapa]

The honing isn't "special" and isn't what keeps the rings sealed. It's the operation done after boring an engine. It results in a cross-hatch that helps hold oil against the cylinder wall and aids in wearing the rough spots off new rings.
You use different stones, different grits, for some ring materials so it's not all the same. If you take a block to a shop to be bored and/or honed, it's best to tell them the rings you will be using so they can put on the final honing finish for those rings to help them "seat".

The cross-hatch can be gone and all will be fine. It's when things get worn beyond that that there's a problem, or if you get glazed cylinder walls as they are very smooth and don't hold oil.
Yes, ideally there's not enough long-term wear to take the pattern off, but it being gone doesn't mean no more ring seal and doesn't usually result in oil use because of that. Cause and effect.
I've torn down engines to do valve work and seen the hone pattern gone but the engine wasn't "using oil" beyond normal.
The reason an engine may use oil when that cross-hatch patter is gone isn't because it's gone, it's because of cylinder wear. So it's not the lack of the pattern that caused the oil consumption, it's the wear that took the pattern away that results in oil consumption.

Some fuel getting down there is normal, the H20 is not surprising - what saves an engine is the fact that normally you get it up to normal operating temperature for at least 15-20 minutes and then those fuel fumes are burned off and the water is evaporated. It gets there via condensation.
Some fuel passage is very normal - that's why people who burn E85 or even pure ethanol should go no longer than 5,000 miles between oil changes!
The PCV system is made to vent off that stuff and to pull a vacuum in the crankcase.

I have a feeling they smelled gas but saw water. Even these engines have controls to prevent real flooding like older carbureted engines lacked (or that even early injected engines didn't do well)

(I have a boring bar, Sunnen hone set, etc. and have done these very operations. Speaking from experience.)

 

[Madmikethemillwright]

The honing isn't "special" and isn't what keeps the rings sealed. It's the operation done after boring an engine. It results in a cross-hatch that helps hold oil against the cylinder wall and aids in wearing the rough spots off new rings.
You use different stones, different grits, for some ring materials so it's not all the same. If you take a block to a shop to be bored and/or honed, it's best to tell them the rings you will be using so they can put on the final honing finish for those rings to help them "seat".

The cross-hatch can be gone and all will be fine. It's when things get worn beyond that that there's a problem, or if you get glazed cylinder walls as they are very smooth and don't hold oil.
Yes, ideally there's not enough long-term wear to take the pattern off, but it being gone doesn't mean no more ring seal and doesn't usually result in oil use because of that. Cause and effect.
I've torn down engines to do valve work and seen the hone pattern gone but the engine wasn't "using oil" beyond normal.
The reason an engine may use oil when that cross-hatch patter is gone isn't because it's gone, it's because of cylinder wear. So it's not the lack of the pattern that caused the oil consumption, it's the wear that took the pattern away that results in oil consumption.

Some fuel getting down there is normal, the H20 is not surprising - what saves an engine is the fact that normally you get it up to normal operating temperature for at least 15-20 minutes and then those fuel fumes are burned off and the water is evaporated. It gets there via condensation.
Some fuel passage is very normal - that's why people who burn E85 or even pure ethanol should go no longer than 5,000 miles between oil changes!
The PCV system is made to vent off that stuff and to pull a vacuum in the crankcase.

I have a feeling they smelled gas but saw water. Even these engines have controls to prevent real flooding like older carbureted engines lacked (or that even early injected engines didn't do well)

(I have a boring bar, Sunnen hone set, etc. and have done these very operations. Speaking from experience.)

To be exact there was

The honing isn't "special" and isn't what keeps the rings sealed. It's the operation done after boring an engine. It results in a cross-hatch that helps hold oil against the cylinder wall and aids in wearing the rough spots off new rings.
You use different stones, different grits, for some ring materials so it's not all the same. If you take a block to a shop to be bored and/or honed, it's best to tell them the rings you will be using so they can put on the final honing finish for those rings to help them "seat".

The cross-hatch can be gone and all will be fine. It's when things get worn beyond that that there's a problem, or if you get glazed cylinder walls as they are very smooth and don't hold oil.
Yes, ideally there's not enough long-term wear to take the pattern off, but it being gone doesn't mean no more ring seal and doesn't usually result in oil use because of that. Cause and effect.
I've torn down engines to do valve work and seen the hone pattern gone but the engine wasn't "using oil" beyond normal.
The reason an engine may use oil when that cross-hatch patter is gone isn't because it's gone, it's because of cylinder wear. So it's not the lack of the pattern that caused the oil consumption, it's the wear that took the pattern away that results in oil consumption.

Some fuel getting down there is normal, the H20 is not surprising - what saves an engine is the fact that normally you get it up to normal operating temperature for at least 15-20 minutes and then those fuel fumes are burned off and the water is evaporated. It gets there via condensation.
Some fuel passage is very normal - that's why people who burn E85 or even pure ethanol should go no longer than 5,000 miles between oil changes!
The PCV system is made to vent off that stuff and to pull a vacuum in the crankcase.

I have a feeling they smelled gas but saw water. Even these engines have controls to prevent real flooding like older carbureted engines lacked (or that even early injected engines didn't do well)

(I have a boring bar, Sunnen hone set, etc. and have done these very operations. Speaking from experience.)

So to be exact after 41 days of ownership there was 6 quarts of liquid in my oil pan. The Jeep only takes 5 quarts to fill!!!
Due to the frequent starts and stops of the gas/electric combination that’s how much leaked passed the rings.
I did try to satisfy the requirements of FORM just a day before that
FORM requirements
1. At least 4 gal of fresh fuel
No problem there!!!
2. 210 degrees oil temp for 25 mins.
Well that’s a problem!!!
Following advice from 4xe forum I proceeded to drive up and down the highway in 4th gear at engine screaming 3000rpm and the best I could get was 208 degrees!!! It was -5 that day.
Next day no electric mode and back to FORM.
As a side note. When the dealer returned it to me with fresh oil change and full fresh tank of fuel…it went back into FORM 24 hrs later!!!
I think they are in cahoots with the gas companies!!!!! Lolol
Hope that clarifies it for you.
Cheers

 

[bleda2002]

Jeep should just include the winter front cover for the 4xe as that seems to be the answer to this on the 4xe forums. Once people put that on it seems to do better even in abysmally cold temps.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

2. 210 degrees oil temp for 25 mins.
Well that’s a problem!!!
Following advice from 4xe forum I proceeded to drive up and down the highway in 4th gear at engine screaming 3000rpm and the best I could get was 208 degrees!!!

I posted my oil temperatures in another 4xE thread - I have a 3.6 gasser Overland.
It was 37 degrees out.
It took over 10 miles for the oil temp to reach 190
It took 15 miles for it to hit 200 or so. It never went above 201 as I recall now.
15 miles, 10 of that 40-45 mph backroads, the last 5 65 mph highway.
If I can't get my oil temperature above 201 after 15 miles.............. how are you going to make any 10-20 miles drives and get the oil hot for more than 1 minute.

On the other hand, it's load as much as speed that warms things up - that's why sitting in a driveway with foot on the throttle like some people did 50 years ago never really warmed things up that much.

 

[Aero_JT]

Yes the issue was after trying to get it out of FORM unsuccessfully is was -17 at the time. I brought it into my work shop for the day. Because I had heard about this gaining level on the dip stick I decided to check mine.
I was 1/2 inch over the full mark!!! I freaked out and called my dealer. They told me do not start the gas engine. I tried the electric mode and it worked!! Remember it was in a heated shop all day. I backed out drove 2 blocks in -17 and bam!!! The gas engine kicks in and it is very unhappy. Tells me electric mode is unavailable.
Brought to dealer in the morning and they confirmed that gas and moisture were in the oil pan!!! They changed the oil and call Jeep for guidance.
Jeep tells them, the vehicle is operating as it is supposed to.
they protest explaining the issue and are told again, the vehicle is operating the way it is supposed to!!!!
I traded it 2 days later, they sent it to a dealer down in Florida!!! Lol
It’s a dirty little secret about these phevs and the gas in the oil issue. Now I know better!!!
Cheers

Thanks for the thread and info! Also from north of the border and was thinking (more like dreaming) about getting a 4xe Wrangler in the future.

Guess that'd have to wait until (if) they sort things out eh?

 

[The White Rabbit]

Very informative. 4xe if I don’t leave Texas, but a 392 ? cmon hemi

 

[Trickster]

As it’s about to get down to -30C here this weekend and hang around for x amount of days, I am glad I didn’t jump on the Hybrid or EV bandwagon.
Fair weather vehicles apparently.
That and the charging infrastructure here is terrible.

 

[Madmikethemillwright]

Thanks for the thread and info! Also from north of the border and was thinking (more like dreaming) about getting a 4xe Wrangler in the future.

Guess that'd have to wait until (if) they sort things out eh?

I was thinking of looking back at it when they go fully electric in 2025. Then as long as it has a few hundred kms of range I’ll be happy. The 4xe just didn’t have any range but off road was about 2 hrs of rock crawling.
All electric should be sweet!!!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

As it’s about to get down to -30C here this weekend and hang around for x amount of days, I am glad I didn’t jump on the Hybrid or EV bandwagon.
Fair weather vehicles apparently.
That and the charging infrastructure here is terrible.

Up-side-down world. It's 53 here at 5:00 pm (then next week, back down we go)
No snow, ground is dusty and dry.
If you guys have any spare snow, my wife would appreciate you sending some down tonight.

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