Lubing joints without Zirc fittings

[Mtpisgah]

My JTM has developed some severe squeaking recently, mainly at the back. I have Fox 2.5 Elite shocks on the back, so it should not be the known issue with the OEM Mojave shocks. Last night I greased the joints that have Zirc fittings, but what do I do with the other joints where there is a rubber bushing and bolt at the end of a control arm? I sprayed a little silicon lube on them and it is better, but is that just masking a potential problem? Is there a proper method to lube those joints? Disassemble and grease?

2021 JT Mojave
47k miles
37" Yoko Geolanders
3" JKS lift with Dobinsons HD rear coils
OEM front shocks, soon to be replaced with Fox 2.5 Elites
Fox 2.5 Elites on the rear.

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[Stan H]

What I have done is go to a parts house specifically a Napa they have a greasing syringe . It is will snap lock into the end of the Grease gun hose. Then poke the rubber bushing and grease it till it swells. Then pull it out . Done.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

What I have done is go to a parts house specifically a Napa they have a greasing syringe . It is will snap lock into the end of the Grease gun hose. Then poke the rubber bushing and grease it till it swells. Then pull it out . Done.

Don't grease rubber bushings!
No, that's bad for the bushing. Anyone who knows suspension and steering will tell you that.

If a bushing squeaks, it's already bad. Rubber bushings twist and distort on the center sleeve and inside the outer sleeve. They don't move on or in the sleeves. Good bushings don't squeak and grease is bad for rubber.

I sprayed a little silicon lube on them and it is better, but is that just masking a potential problem? Is there a proper method to lube those joints? Disassemble and grease?

NO! Do not GREASE rubber bushings. My bet is that either something is LOOSE or you have a spring squeak. You can test for a spring squeak with silicone spray. But don't take a bushing joint apart and put anything on it - never use lube on rubber bushings. They are not supposed to move. You'll ruin them.
Rubber bushings only make a sound if they are shot.

Greasing rubber bushings is almost as bad as those who tell others to test an alternator by pulling a battery cable off when the engine is running. both are among the worst of the worst "shade-tree" things that end up destroying, never fixing.

Your bushings are not squeaking -

There is no movement of the rubber unless they are BAD. And if you grease them, you will make them bad.

They are NOT meant to be lubricated -

You will ruin them with grease -

(I figured no one would believe a trained suspension person, so I got support for my comments from the internet)

Bottom line, NEVER grease bonded rubber bushings.
#1 - they don't need it
#2 - it will ruin them
Telling someone to grease them is a bit irresponsible, IMO.

 

[Stan H]

I thought he was taking about ball joint and tie rod type stuff.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I thought he was taking about ball joint and tie rod type stuff.

This is what he asked - "...............at the end of a control arm"

but what do I do with the other joints where there is a rubber bushing and bolt at the end of a control arm?

As far as tie rod ends, You don't grease those, either.
All you would be doing is putting grease under the rubber, not into the joint itself at all.
The joints are made in such a way there isn't any way to lubricate them short of drilling into them.
Greasing under the seal does nothing for the joint
But if it makes you feel good.........

 

[Mtpisgah]

@ShadowsPapa for the detailed response. On the control arms, they have fittings on one end, so was it ok to grease those?

I know this is a pretty open ended question, but how long should the bushings last on most parts?

Did I potentially damage the other bushings by spraying silicone spray on them one time? Would washing it off help at this point, or is it too late?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

@ShadowsPapa for the detailed response. On the control arms, they have fittings on one end, so was it ok to grease those?

I know this is a pretty open ended question, but how long should the bushings last on most parts?

Did I potentially damage the other bushings by spraying silicone spray on them one time? Would washing it off help at this point, or is it too late?

Don't sweat pure silicone sprays. As long as it's silicone and doesn't have "petroleum distillates" or petrol products in it (no oil, no grease).
Silicone spray is fine and can help slow the natural drying of rubber products.
A good silicone spray can be used on plastic, rubber, nylon, metal, wood, and it won't hurt painted surfaces.
Don't worry about the silicone spray as long as that's all it is - no worries, don't wipe it off.

How long rubber bushings last is a wide open topic.
In 2008 I replaced all of the rubber bushings, and other suspension and steering wear parts on my 1982 SX4. That's over 20 years. Some of them were still good, just starting to go. It had 154,000 miles at the time and had lived a very rough, abusive life before I got it.

After 35 years, the bushings in my 70 Javelin were beyond toast. Really nasty. It had only 24,000 actual original miles on it at the time (a low miles survivor for the most part)

All suspension parts of my 68 Javelin were original when I sold the car to my younger brother with 120,000 miles on it. As I recall the car was about 10 years old then. I don't think he ever did do any suspension or steering work on it. (amazing as in 68 AMC still used trunnion front suspension!)

My 1970 Chevy C20 had 100,000 miles on it when I drove it into the dealer lot to trade it for my first Jeep in 1987. All original steering and suspension and it had been used for towing A LOT and farm use for 6 years.

And yet when I worked doing suspension, alignment and brakes to pay for college, I saw vehicles with far fewer miles and a lot newer come in with really nasty worn parts and bushings that were toast.

It's going to depend in the environment around you (industrial areas have more rubber-hating stuff in the air), altitude (higher altitudes mean less filtering of UV), how it's driven - how much do the bushings flex (off-roading being harder on bushings than highway driving)
With normal driving I'd expect these to go at least 80,000 miles, with reductions for off-road driving (much more flex and twisting) and so on.

Rubber bushings are bonded to a steel inner shell, a steel sleeve that runs through the center, and to a steel outer shell. So the rubber can only twist and flex. It can't move independent of the steel inner or outer shell. It's trapped. It's like a spring in a way. There are no moving parts. The outer metal shell is pressed into the part such as a control arm. The inner shell is a bit longer than the rest so that when the bolt is tightened, the inner steel tube or shell is clamped into place, preventing it from moving at all. If that bolt isn't tight enough, the inside shell or sleeve can move or turn on the bolt. That's bad. It's why control arms have such high torque specs, to clamp that inside bushing tube tightly in the bracket.


It's amazing what different things can have an effect on various parts like rubber -
I often get AMC heater/AC blower motors sent to me for restoration. Once in a while they include the rubber cooling tube with the motor. I suspect it's because the tube has hardened so much over time that they can't get it out of the motor shell without breaking the rubber tube.
I carefully remove it and soak it in a solution of 3:1 91% rubbing alcohol and wintergreen oil. (3 parts 91% rubbing alcohol to 1 part wintergreen oil - the pure extract. Not cheap.)
After soaking in that for a few hours, usually about a day, the tube is just like new.
The methyl salicylate in the wintergreen oil 'renews" the rubber tube (and make is smell great, too!) Some motorcycle guys use it on the rubber intake and air filter parts on their older dirt bikes to soften and renew them, make them flexible again.
Unlike products containing petroleum products (like most grease and oil and many spray lube products), it doesn't do harm although I suppose soaking the part in it for 3 or 4 days could lead to trouble and very swollen parts)

 

[Mtpisgah]

Thanks @ShadowsPapa The JT goes to the shop next week to have some new parts installed and I will have them look at it more closely. My mechanic said it could be improperly torqued bolts. It just started doing it, so either they have come loose, or it is something else.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Thanks @ShadowsPapa The JT goes to the shop next week to have some new parts installed and I will have them look at it more closely. My mechanic said it could be improperly torqued bolts. It just started doing it, so either they have come loose, or it is something else.

Your mechanic is possibly better than some. Many wouldn't even mention that unless the owner asked them to check bolt torque. It could be, yes. Likely? Not necessarily, but that doesn't mean it's not possible. More than one person in these forums have found bolts not torqued up to specs.
They are machines designed and assembled by humans. Even the parts installed by robots - the robots and computers are designed, built and programmed by humans. There's not been a perfect human for a very long time.

 

[WILDHOBO]

Don't grease rubber bushings!
No, that's bad for the bushing. Anyone who knows suspension and steering will tell you that.

If a bushing squeaks, it's already bad. Rubber bushings twist and distort on the center sleeve and inside the outer sleeve. They don't move on or in the sleeves. Good bushings don't squeak and grease is bad for rubber.



NO! Do not GREASE rubber bushings. My bet is that either something is LOOSE or you have a spring squeak. You can test for a spring squeak with silicone spray. But don't take a bushing joint apart and put anything on it - never use lube on rubber bushings. They are not supposed to move. You'll ruin them.
Rubber bushings only make a sound if they are shot.

Greasing rubber bushings is almost as bad as those who tell others to test an alternator by pulling a battery cable off when the engine is running. both are among the worst of the worst "shade-tree" things that end up destroying, never fixing.

Your bushings are not squeaking -

There is no movement of the rubber unless they are BAD. And if you grease them, you will make them bad.

They are NOT meant to be lubricated -

You will ruin them with grease -

(I figured no one would believe a trained suspension person, so I got support for my comments from the internet)

Bottom line, NEVER grease bonded rubber bushings.
#1 - they don't need it
#2 - it will ruin them
Telling someone to grease them is a bit irresponsible, IMO.

Could not be more correct.

 

[Vtur]

Swaybar bushings is the only bushing can be grease using silicone grease. Dielectric grease works too.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

These may be different, but in automotive, training was - no lube. The sway bar didn't twist enough in the bushing to break the rubber's grip on the sway bar itself. The clamp was supposed to hold the rubber tightly in the clamp and against the frame, and also to force the rubber hard against the bar, preventing movement. It in a real sense acted like a bonded bushing. The proof is in the many cars and trucks I've repaired and restored where the bushing was stuck to the sway bar itself. It never moved. So it never needed lube.
Poly bushings are a different animal - they are made so that the bar turns in the poly bushing so they provide a special lube. But for rubber bushings on a standard sway bar - make sure the bar is clean and dry, and clamp the bushing in place. If it squeaks, it's loose, not a good fit.
I have never lubricated a sway bar bushing in my life - and won't.
If it squeaks, I'll replace the bushing and done.

Like I said - these may be different due to the extreme articulation of the solid axle.

IFS - don't lube it, replace it. it's worn and not tight against the bar. The bar should not pivot inside the rubber, the rubber should grip the bar tightly.

In any case, NO PETROL BASED LUBE ever. Silicone, but I don't trust much of anything else.

 

[Lunentucker]

I have never seen a grease fitting on my JT anywhere.

 

[Mtpisgah]

I have never seen a grease fitting on my JT anywhere.

The fittings in question on my Jeep are for aftermarket rear control arms, sway bar links, and rear driveshaft.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The fittings in question on my Jeep are for aftermarket rear control arms, sway bar links, and rear driveshaft.

If the control arms are aftermarket, not MOPAR, then they are likely using something other than rubber bushings. Follow the recommendation of the maker/manufacturer of those control arms. They may have a lube they specify or prefer and a time-frame they'd like them lubed at.

(Next time I see my doctor I'm going to ask about grease zerks for my knees and hips. Dang, they are creaking today.)

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