2022 Gas vs 2024 (4xe?) Financials

[Jteakus]

I'm just not seeing the big mpg gain with the 4xe.
I drive 24 miles one way to work, I encounter 5 traffic lights. I can see them for a while on approach and can usually adjust speed to never completely stop. Diesel is averaging 25 mpg/tank. What would a 4xe gain me over my current setup?

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[Jteakus]

Not being a hater, would really like to know.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Not being a hater, would really like to know.

I absolutely get it - if you don't know, you go in without any basis for an opinion one way or another.
I don't mind opposite arguments from my own stance if the other person has something other than hate and guesses backing them.

They aren't for everyone. That's a given. They aren't for a long drive - don't figure on them being any better on an hours long drive across the country. But in the right conditions there's a gain.
In Florida, stop and go, mostly flat, our JLU Rubicon got 20.5 to about 22 mpg.
I don't know what a pure gasser JLU Rubicon might get. So I can't say if it's a gain or not.

My wife can drive to town and back on battery alone. That's anywhere from $1.18 to about $1.77 for 25 miles. Figure that trip would take over 1 gallon of gas with a JLU Rubicon normally.
With her driving not counting the battery charges in between, she got over 50 mpg. If I were to take the energy equivalent comparing gas to electric costs, watts compared to BTUs, we figure it's over 30 mpg. The dash said it was 37 mpg equivalent. Maybe that's correct, I've not done the math but it's fantastic. Our power bills have not gone up to where I notice. It's hard to tell because just a few degrees difference in a day can change how much your HVAC will use but compared to a year ago, it's a wash. Still - driving 25 miles on a buck and change? What JLU Rubicon does that?
It's the POWER as well. Compare the HP and torque of the 4xe to a 5.7 Hemi and the 4xe wins. And the torque is instant. Touch that pedal and you GO. No waiting for the engine to get into it's power band, you GO.
That's why if you run in 2H, the torque output is actually limited.
If you run in 4H auto - the torque is not limited. My wife got in a hurry one weekend thinking we were going be late for a church thing and I wasn't ready for her to hit that pedal and it shoved me back in my seat.

So if you appreciate V8 power, seat of the pants go and go now, and have a fairly short commute, it's a possible option.

Drive one for sure. I took one for a test drive, well, first the sales guy borrowed the sales manager's JLU 4xe and took me for a drive, then I drove their Rubicon and I was sold on the power and smooth power train. I did the math on my wife's driving and figured it would work fine for her - and it has, perfect for her driving distances and style.
My problem is how to figure oil changes - she's gone 500 miles and put only about 30 miles on the engine. I think it tracks that on the PHEV screen on the cluster - what mode you've used for what miles.



instant heat in the winter - no engine to warm up, it's electric heat.



Torque and quiet on the trail. Granted, you can't do it all on electric only, but this was a cool test. In hybrid mode you'll have crazy torque for climbing.



If you still think it's not for you - so be it. It's admittedly not for everyone.

 

[Jteakus]

Thanks for a real-world report!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

My wife can drive to town and back on battery alone. That's anywhere from $1.18 to about $1.77 for 25 miles.

I should explain that a bit - MidAmerican Energy has summer and winter rates. The winter rate is roughly 8 cents a kwh, and in the summer, starting sometime in June, that goes up to about 12 cents/kwh.
So in the non-peak use months it's about a buck 18 for a charge, which will go 24-26 miles depending on weather, who drives, speeds and so on.
Still, with gas at $3.69 currently, and going fewer miles on that gallon.....
How things calculate out will vary with fuel prices and electric prices in your area.

You can configure the Jeep to charge only at certain times, too - even with the included level 1 110 volt charger. it's in the radio screen how to schedule the charge times for off-peak if you want.
12 hours for the level 1 charger
2.25 hours for a level 2 charger (220 volts)

 

[bleda2002]

I'm just not seeing the big mpg gain with the 4xe.
I drive 24 miles one way to work, I encounter 5 traffic lights. I can see them for a while on approach and can usually adjust speed to never completely stop. Diesel is averaging 25 mpg/tank. What would a 4xe gain me over my current setup?

As shadows papa said you'd basically use 14 kwh of electricity at whatever your rate is, then 1-1.25 gallons of gas at whatever that is for you. For us the wife drives just about 20 miles a day for work so we charge at 1.44 for the round trip instead of 3.90 a gallon of gas.

Then also the prodigious power of slightly more torque and a crap ton more HP than the diesel.

 

[Gren71]

I wonder if theyll the eco boost to the JT, like the ram has, as a “electric” option ?‍

 

[kevman65]

This is just my opinion, didn't read through everything to see if it's covered.

Buying a used Jeep with 30,000+ miles is iffy. You don't have ANY idea what it's been through, how it's been driven and/or abused. This website right here is full of idiots bragging about what they did and how their warranty claim was denied.

And since I said the "W" word, full warranty on the 24.

Now the true bottom line, buy what YOU can afford and what YOU want. Because that's all that really matters.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

This is just my opinion, didn't read through everything to see if it's covered.

Buying a used Jeep with 30,000+ miles is iffy. You don't have ANY idea what it's been through, how it's been driven and/or abused. This website right here is full of idiots bragging about what they did and how their warranty claim was denied.

And since I said the "W" word, full warranty on the 24.

Now the true bottom line, buy what YOU can afford and what YOU want. Because that's all that really matters.

Absolutely.
Only the person looking to buy knows their own circumstances. Each of us comes at this from a different angle, differing and/or different points of view, different needs, wants, purposes, economics and more.
Warranty is worth $$ on modern vehicles. Even to me warranty is worth something.

 

[JarHeadLV]

I was looking at possible getting a 4xe for my wife and selling our RR. The salesman at my local dealer said it really gets about 22mpg overall on avg, which I wondered what's the purpose of this vehicle when a regular wrangler can get same mileage??? - but from what you guys are saying his "math" was way off.

Power= badass....wish our Gladiators had good power options!!!!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I was looking at possible getting a 4xe for my wife and selling our RR. The salesman at my local dealer said it really gets about 22mpg overall on avg, which I wondered what's the purpose of this vehicle when a regular wrangler can get same mileage??? - but from what you guys are saying his "math" was way off.

Power= badass....wish our Gladiators had good power options!!!!

That's where I have to say "it depends".
If all you do is long drives then it's simply a powerful hybrid.
If you do shorter drives, commuting, etc. then you can run a lot of miles on pure electric and the engine sits.
If you make a 50 mile round trip - the drive out is all electric, the drive back is hybrid at 22 mpg so you've gone 50 miles on a bit over a gallon of gas.
If your trip is 40 miles round trip, you go the first 25 on electric, then the final 15 on hybrid and you've gone 40 miles on less than a gallon of gas. Get home and plug it in.
Next 40 miles, same thing - 25 on battery, 15 miles on hybrid mode, less than 1 gallon of gas used.

They really shine in traffic jams and heavy traffic and in-town driving.
In fact some people will use e-save on the highway when making a trip to town and save the battery for when they get into town and run on mostly electric in town.
When going through GA and parts of KY in heavy traffic, we watched or MPGe actually climb in the stop and go traffic. Pure gas engines are inefficient as heck in town - hybrids shine in town.
And as I've shown with my wife's - 3 months on less than 10 gallons of gas for 500 miles?

 

[rbpro99]

I'll more or less ditto what's being said above. I've got a 22 4xe Sahara and a 22 EcoDiesel JT and drive a ton, around 25-30k miles a year, blend of city and highway. Right now average of all time on the JLU is at 35.4 MPG, this is because it's been some time since it took a highway drive. If I drive it between Portland, OR and Seattle (pretty common occurrence) average will drop down to around 22 as I am typically running in E-Save, and if I do this trip twice close to each other then i'll get down in the teens, mpg on the 4xe in E-Save it probably worse than a regular 2.0 on the highway with the extra weight. Love the power though, it's definitely quick. Faster than a 2022 Ram 1500 Hemi with 3.92 gearing (dad's truck).

On the ecodiesel, current average is about 22-23 since I've been doing more city driving. Took it to Bend on wednesday and saw 26.5 through the mountains. I do long runs for work, longest one recently would have been down to San Francisco and then up to Bellingham WA, and one in a loop out to sun valley, up through MT and back to Oregon. Averaged between 27-29mpg on those trips with 2" spacers and slightly more aggressive all terrain tires, (not rubicon level). Love the way the ecodiesel drives, but if they come out with the JT with the same powertrain as the current JLU 4xe I'll be tempted to trade. That said, they have the plug in system with the pentastar v6 in the Pacifica minvan correct? That might be easier to put in the truck for towing applications.. who knows?

Just some practical experience from my end, both are great to drive and the JL is perfect for my wife and her around town shopping. JTD is great for my long highway driving and fuel economy, really comes down to preference. I like to go fast (I know, stupid me who goes fast in Jeeps?) but I do and as a result the 4xe is more fun in my mind. If I can get a JT with a 4xe powertrain from the JLU I'd do a street truck.. maybe lower it, do spacers, street tires, intake exhaust and chip and have some fun with it. That's just me, and my wife won't let me do it to the JL :D

I did try chipping the ecodiesel as a side note and got all sorts of codes so I pulled it out, but it did significantly improve milage. with it running I could get over 25 pulling a double axle trailer.

 

[Dave-in-RI]

This is just my opinion, didn't read through everything to see if it's covered.

Buying a used Jeep with 30,000+ miles is iffy. You don't have ANY idea what it's been through, how it's been driven and/or abused. This website right here is full of idiots bragging about what they did and how their warranty claim was denied.

And since I said the "W" word, full warranty on the 24.

Now the true bottom line, buy what YOU can afford and what YOU want. Because that's all that really matters.

Thanks. My old man told me, “never buy secondhand Jeeps or sports cars” cause you don’t know how they were driven (or how long they sat etc).. That argument makes sense. As for warranty, that also makes sense and seems to be the way the world has gone: it’s more profitable to make shittier things and offer a warranty (better yet, sell it to people) and fix those repairs. Even LL Bean stopped its lifetime warranty and began making crappier stuff years ago, then reduced the warranty altogether to a year I think. Don’t know cause they lost me as a customer. Bunch a crap poser stuff now.

My wife just sold her 2004 Subaru which she’d driven since new these past 18 years. Original sticker was around $32k, which over 18 years was (junkyard took it for $700) around $1800 a year, or $150/mo. And it had repairs near end of life, reduced safety from being outdated vs newer options, etc., and looked like a relic., so the idea of buying new and holding it until zero surprisingly isn’t a good one anymore. Doing that with a Gladiator that costs twice that makes even less sense. It’s surprisingly more affordable to accept “you’re always gonna have a car payment” (or at least a lot of money tied up in a depreciating asset) and then you also get a newer car. Things are wonky now. Better yet is obviously buy used for much cheaper and don’t hold it as long, but that takes a lot more effort and is less shiny. Time to win the Powerball I guess.

 

[rbpro99]

Thanks. My old man told me, “never buy secondhand Jeeps or sports cars” cause you don’t know how they were driven (or how long they sat etc).. That argument makes sense. As for warranty, that also makes sense and seems to be the way the world has gone: it’s more profitable to make shittier things and offer a warranty (better yet, sell it to people) and fix those repairs. Even LL Bean stopped its lifetime warranty and began making crappier stuff years ago, then reduced the warranty altogether to a year I think. Don’t know cause they lost me as a customer. Bunch a crap poser stuff now.

My wife just sold her 2004 Subaru which she’d driven since new these past 18 years. Original sticker was around $32k, which over 18 years was (junkyard took it for $700) around $1800 a year, or $150/mo. And it had repairs near end of life, reduced safety from being outdated vs newer options, etc., and looked like a relic., so the idea of buying new and holding it until zero surprisingly isn’t a good one anymore. Doing that with a Gladiator that costs twice that makes even less sense. It’s surprisingly more affordable to accept “you’re always gonna have a car payment” (or at least a lot of money tied up in a depreciating asset) and then you also get a newer car. Things are wonky now. Better yet is obviously buy used for much cheaper and don’t hold it as long, but that takes a lot more effort and is less shiny. Time to win the Powerball I guess.

One thing a lot of folks don't realize is the powertrain warranty on the EcoDiesel is much longer than the gas. 5 years 100k miles. Something that would be important to some, that said I've not had an issue with mine yet

 

[BearFootSam]

My question would be - can that 2.0 handle pulling 5,000-6,000 pounds on the highway for several hours at a time - and have enough battery to keep supplementing the engine to keep up that torque? In the mountains you can burn through that battery capacity so there's not a lot of help for the engine at times (after miles of up-hill, it seemed to not do as well - can't keep draining a battery forever and the engine can't propel the load AND charge the battery, too)
It works in a Wrangler, but it's only pulling the Wrangler. But the 2.0 on its own can't possibly pull a loaded JT in the hills. The drive from home to CO for example is all up hill, literally. By the time I reached Colorado Springs there'd be nothing in the batteries. I know it's supposed to be managed so that it always has reserve - but you can't always have reserve for ever.
And you have the weight issue - you don't have a payload rating you care about in a Wrangler. You do have payload with a JT.
Take the weight of the batteries and electric bits and drop them in a JT. In my case I'd have no payload left. Nothing. The extra weight would take every bit of the payload the truck is rated for.
I seriously can't see a JT 4xe that can go 300-400 miles on a tank of fuel and tow thousands of pounds almost non-stop.
That's the other thing that would kill sales of a JT 4xe as it sits now - the fuel tank on the Wrangler is special - and only holds 17 gallons. Take the MPG of the wrangler, reduce that for the heavier JT and now you get maybe 18 mpg with a 17 gallon tank. Towing you'll get 13-14 mpg on a 17 gallon tank. Who is going to accept that?
If they can't get me 300-400 miles on a tank of fuel, or can't get me from here to the Mississippi on a single tank of fuel when towing 5,000 pounds - it's not going to sell well at all.

It's going to be interesting to see what they come out with. I too am in the camp of the 4XE not being up to snuff for the JT. As you pointed out, towing, the battery pack is very quickly going to be out of the equation and then it's just a 2.0 highly stressed I4 vs a substantially higher displacement, under stressed V6. The higher displacement less tuned v6 is going to be able to grind out the miles under load with far less abuse than the smaller powerplant. It goes back to the reason some of the best classic trucks had big displacement low compression v8s, a smaller powerplant might match the power but not the power and the longevity to put in real work over it's life.

Now Jeep might still do it, but I would expect the payload to be lower. We have all been around about the v6 but in terms of cooling, payload and usability, the PentaStar is the engineer's choice.

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