2022 Gas vs 2024 (4xe?) Financials

[BearFootSam]

I absolutely get it - if you don't know, you go in without any basis for an opinion one way or another.
I don't mind opposite arguments from my own stance if the other person has something other than hate and guesses backing them.

They aren't for everyone. That's a given. They aren't for a long drive - don't figure on them being any better on an hours long drive across the country. But in the right conditions there's a gain.
In Florida, stop and go, mostly flat, our JLU Rubicon got 20.5 to about 22 mpg.
I don't know what a pure gasser JLU Rubicon might get. So I can't say if it's a gain or not.

My wife can drive to town and back on battery alone. That's anywhere from $1.18 to about $1.77 for 25 miles. Figure that trip would take over 1 gallon of gas with a JLU Rubicon normally.
With her driving not counting the battery charges in between, she got over 50 mpg. If I were to take the energy equivalent comparing gas to electric costs, watts compared to BTUs, we figure it's over 30 mpg. The dash said it was 37 mpg equivalent. Maybe that's correct, I've not done the math but it's fantastic. Our power bills have not gone up to where I notice. It's hard to tell because just a few degrees difference in a day can change how much your HVAC will use but compared to a year ago, it's a wash. Still - driving 25 miles on a buck and change? What JLU Rubicon does that?
It's the POWER as well. Compare the HP and torque of the 4xe to a 5.7 Hemi and the 4xe wins. And the torque is instant. Touch that pedal and you GO. No waiting for the engine to get into it's power band, you GO.
That's why if you run in 2H, the torque output is actually limited.
If you run in 4H auto - the torque is not limited. My wife got in a hurry one weekend thinking we were going be late for a church thing and I wasn't ready for her to hit that pedal and it shoved me back in my seat.

So if you appreciate V8 power, seat of the pants go and go now, and have a fairly short commute, it's a possible option.

Drive one for sure. I took one for a test drive, well, first the sales guy borrowed the sales manager's JLU 4xe and took me for a drive, then I drove their Rubicon and I was sold on the power and smooth power train. I did the math on my wife's driving and figured it would work fine for her - and it has, perfect for her driving distances and style.
My problem is how to figure oil changes - she's gone 500 miles and put only about 30 miles on the engine. I think it tracks that on the PHEV screen on the cluster - what mode you've used for what miles.



instant heat in the winter - no engine to warm up, it's electric heat.



Torque and quiet on the trail. Granted, you can't do it all on electric only, but this was a cool test. In hybrid mode you'll have crazy torque for climbing.



If you still think it's not for you - so be it. It's admittedly not for everyone.

Well stated!

Stop and go is where you see the biggest gains from a hybrid. The 20-22 you see in that driving compares to the 15 I get in stop and go in a JTR. 20-25 is achievable on the freeway.

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[Dave-in-RI]

the difference between a gas 23 and a comparably equipped 4xe 24 is going to be between 3.5k and 7.5k on the sticker after tax incentives, add another 4.5k in rebates you're averaging a 10k difference in prices.

The 4xe Wranglers are like $20k more than the gas.

It's going to be interesting to see what they come out with. I too am in the camp of the 4XE not being up to snuff for the JT. As you pointed out, towing, the battery pack is very quickly going to be out of the equation and then it's just a 2.0 highly stressed I4 vs a substantially higher displacement, under stressed V6. The higher displacement less tuned v6 is going to be able to grind out the miles under load with far less abuse than the smaller powerplant. It goes back to the reason some of the best classic trucks had big displacement low compression v8s, a smaller powerplant might match the power but not the power and the longevity to put in real work over it's life.

Now Jeep might still do it, but I would expect the payload to be lower. We have all been around about the v6 but in terms of cooling, payload and usability, the PentaStar is the engineer's choice.

4xe diesel (ha)

 

[bleda2002]

The 4xe Wranglers are like $20k more than the gas.

No they're not, they're about 7.5k -9k more than a comparable gas wrangler. The tax break knocks that difference out so you get a better power train for basically even money if you wanted a decently equipped wrangler and not a stripper.

That's how all their hybrids are priced higher but not much more than the tax break.

Sport s automatic 45, sport s 4xe 49
Willy's auto 48, Willy's 4xe 55
Sahara 50k, 4xe 57k
Rubicon 56k, 61
Rubicon X 68 , 69

If you go fully loaded Rubicon x the hybrid is actually potentially 6.5k cheaper

 

[j.o.y.ride]

The 4xe Wranglers are like $20k more than the gas.

Absolutely untrue. Generally $9-11k more before the $7,500 tax break.

 

[j.o.y.ride]

The tow and payload capacities in the truck will be suspect. That will be the leading narrative out there. The 2.0t cannot move the truck, charge the battery, and tow an added 5,000 lbs+ for long durations effectively. In the Wrangler people don't really shop payloads or towing so much.

 

[Dave-in-RI]

Absolutely untrue. Generally $9-11k more before the $7,500 tax break.

I was going off this: Wrangler starting at $31,895 ; Wrangler 4xe starting at $49,995. I didn't click through and build-out etc., but that's a $20k starting difference pre tax break in my brain.

 

[bleda2002]

I was going off this: Wrangler starting at $31,895 ; Wrangler 4xe starting at $49,995. I didn't click through and build-out etc., but that's a $20k starting difference pre tax break in my brain.

31k is a 2 door base sport stripper, that's why I posted the comparison up above and that's not even optioned out, all I did was switch to automatic on each model so the actual delta is even closer than what I had above.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

No they're not, they're about 7.5k -9k more than a comparable gas wrangler. The tax break knocks that difference out so you get a better power train for basically even money if you wanted a decently equipped wrangler and not a stripper.

That's how all their hybrids are priced higher but not much more than the tax break.

Sport s automatic 45, sport s 4xe 49
Willy's auto 48, Willy's 4xe 55
Sahara 50k, 4xe 57k
Rubicon 56k, 61
Rubicon X 68 , 69

If you go fully loaded Rubicon x the hybrid is actually potentially 6.5k cheaper

Not sure where you pulled the numbers from but the MSRP on a 2023 JLU Rubicon 4xe was a bit over $71,000.
When there was still the 7500 tax incentive, it wasn't too badly over gas.
But now that the tax break is roughly half of that, it's way over gas when the break is taken into account..
And then it was made worse by a $200 increase in insurance and a $60 increase in license each year. So it's not yet close to break-even.

Don't get me wrong - I don't regret it - it's like so may things in life. You grit your teeth, take the pain.......... don't look back and think too hard on the numbers.
Besides, I'm doing my part for FCA's R&D into even better things. One step at a time.

 

[cranbiz]

In your comparison. the JL 4xe is a 4 door Sport S, the base JL Sport is a 2 door.

Comparing apples to apples, the 4 door Sport S with the 2.0L and the automatic is $43,690. The Sport S 4xe is $51,790. This is a $8,100 difference, not a $20,000 difference. Both examples are stock except for adding the auto to the ICE Wrangler. No packages added. If you lease it, you get the full $7500 tax credit making the 4xe only $600 more.

 

[bleda2002]

Not sure where you pulled the numbers from but the MSRP on a 2023 JLU Rubicon 4xe was a bit over $71,000.
When there was still the 7500 tax incentive, it wasn't too badly over gas.
But now that the tax break is roughly half of that, it's way over gas when the break is taken into account..
And then it was made worse by a $200 increase in insurance and a $60 increase in license each year. So it's not yet close to break-even.

Don't get me wrong - I don't regret it - it's like so may things in life. You grit your teeth, take the pain.......... don't look back and think too hard on the numbers.
Besides, I'm doing my part for FCA's R&D into even better things. One step at a time.

Straight from build and price, base automatic gas engine of each trim to base 4xe of each trim.

For 2024 the Rubicon X is basically the fully loaded model and as above the price difference between the 2 is fairly negligible.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Absolutely untrue. Generally $9-11k more before the $7,500 tax break.

That 7500 is no longer reality. It was dropped this April or May down to about half of that. The batteries in the JL 4xe are not made in the USA.
Only Pacifica and certain others still get the 7500.
We got it because we bought in January and all the papers were signed and the IRS papers done and printed in January, before they pulled the rug out.......

So if looking at Wrangler 4xe - you can forget the 7500 - it doesn't exist. That makes it a lot more expensive.

 

[bleda2002]

That 7500 is no longer reality. It was dropped this April or May down to about half of that. The batteries in the JL 4xe are not made in the USA.
Only Pacifica and certain others still get the 7500.
We got it because we bought in January and all the papers were signed and the IRS papers done and printed in January, before they pulled the rug out.......

So if looking at Wrangler 4xe - you can forget the 7500 - it doesn't exist. That makes it a lot more expensive.

Lease for the full 7500, immediately buy out and pay the few hundred dollar early buy out few and you can get the extra 3750. Also gets around income requirements Incase you make too much

 

[Dave-in-RI]

In your comparison. the JL 4xe is a 4 door Sport S, the base JL Sport is a 2 door.

Comparing apples to apples, the 4 door Sport S with the 2.0L and the automatic is $43,690. The Sport S 4xe is $51,790. This is a $8,100 difference, not a $20,000 difference. Both examples are stock except for adding the auto to the ICE Wrangler. No packages added. If you lease it, you get the full $7500 tax credit making the 4xe only $600 more.

Got it-- thank you. And ditto to the other person who mentioned it w/ not getting a cheap stripper which, by the way, is sound advice in other parts of life.

 

[Dave-in-RI]

Lease for the full 7500, immediately buy out and pay the few hundred dollar early buy out few and you can get the extra 3750. Also gets around income requirements Incase you make too much

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Lease for the full 7500, immediately buy out and pay the few hundred dollar early buy out few and you can get the extra 3750. Also gets around income requirements Incase you make too much

I had to laugh, SORRY, at the last sentence. My tax guy said I'd have to find some more income and make myself pay more taxes to get the 7500 back. He said start somehow reporting more income. Geesh, where's it going to come from?
I guess more shop work or my wife quilting a lot more (she's trying hard to not take any more in!)

Anyway, your math would work on the lease bit - at least get more of it back. Pay a little to get a lot.

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