Apex power steering pump boost alternative.

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

Watched a YT vid last night where this fella tow the front end of his jeep apart to replace what looked like the pressure bypass valve in his JL/JT PS pump.
He had to disassemble the valve to reuse the factory piston/ seal behind a spring, and the entire process/ assembly reminded me of how, when we were hot rodding our motors back in high school, we'd add washers to shim behind the oil pump bypass spring to get more oil pressure to our engines.

Has anyone tried this with their PS pump? It seemed a pretty straightforward task and the valve looks directly accessible from underneath.

Hmm...

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[Dickster]

I did the the apex steering boost kit. Essentially its basic hydraulic spring to boost pressure is all it is. Just need to source a adjustable spring housing to thread into the pump. The apex kit with cooler for $358 seemed really reasonable for what you get.

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

I did the the apex steering boost kit. Essentially its basic hydraulic spring to boost pressure is all it is. Just need to source a adjustable spring housing to thread into the pump. The apex kit with cooler for $358 seemed really reasonable for what you get.

That's nice and glad it works for you, but that's not what this post is about.

Im inquiring about the efficacy of what appears to be a simple hack, not asking feedback on the kit.
Maybe the credit generation has as a solution to throw money at every little thing (and that's great if you're independently wealthy I suppose.)

I grew up in a time where of necessity, we had to use a little ingenuity here and there, and I like to apply that when there's opportunity. If not for the nostalgia, then the practicality.

 

[RodRecket]

That's nice and glad it works for you, but that's not what this post is about.

Im inquiring about the efficacy of what appears to be a simple hack, not asking feedback on the kit.
Maybe the credit generation has as a solution to throw money at every little thing (and that's great if you're independently wealthy I suppose.)

I grew up in a time where of necessity, we had to use a little ingenuity here and there, and I like to apply that when there's opportunity. If not for the nostalgia, then the practicality.

Sounds like an opportunity for you to lead the charge and share results

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

Sounds like an opportunity for you to lead the charge and share results

It may come to that.
In the meantime I want to see if anyone else has made that trail and taken any arrows or has any relevant input. Hence the post.

 

[Dickster]

That's nice and glad it works for you, but that's not what this post is about.

Im inquiring about the efficacy of what appears to be a simple hack, not asking feedback on the kit.
Maybe the credit generation has as a solution to throw money at every little thing (and that's great if you're independently wealthy I suppose.)

I grew up in a time where of necessity, we had to use a little ingenuity here and there, and I like to apply that when there's opportunity. If not for the nostalgia, then the practicality.

I might have some wealth now but when grew up with no money doing the same thing. Cheap hacks to get the same end results is what i grew up doing. If i wanted it done i did it myself because i couldnt afford people to do the work myself. To this day i still barter what i can do for work done or parts I am not a credit generation i actually pay cash for most things from pure sweat and blood(paid in full for my JT) also have worked in a industry up keeping hydraulic and pneumatic machines. It's a hydraulic system and any part to you buy is $$$. I would imagine the part need would be around $75... New lines and clamps $10...fluid cooler $25-$50. Now you need you build a block to add a inline pressure Guage so you don't blow the pump up, another $75. save some pennies up and buy a kit that someone has already engineered for you and is spot on what you need. $358 most people just need to stop drinking beer for 1 month and they could have the parts.......


Once you actually break the cost down you are not saving a dime.

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

I might have some wealth now but when grew up with no money doing the same thing. Cheap hacks to get the same end results is what i grew up doing. If i wanted it done i did it myself because i couldnt afford people to do the work myself. To this day i still barter what i can do for work done or parts I am not a credit generation i actually pay cash for most things from pure sweat and blood(paid in full for my JT) also have worked in a industry up keeping hydraulic and pneumatic machines. It's a hydraulic system and any part to you buy is $$$. I would imagine the part need would be around $75... New lines and clamps $10...fluid cooler $25-$50. Now you need you build a block to add a inline pressure Guage so you don't blow the pump up, another $75. save some pennies up and buy a kit that someone has already engineered for you and is spot on what you need. $358 most people just need to stop drinking beer for 1 month and they could have the parts.......


Once you actually break the cost down you are not saving a dime.

That was very gracious and generous of you to explain all that.

And it may be the system as it is cannot at all be tweaked for marginal improvement without creating a problem short or long term, or it may not.
Two potential harms exist:
Increasing pressure and
Increasing temperature.
The kit addresses one.
It may or not increase the other.
The kit comes with a gauge and marked margins. Are these based on the pump specs? Apex's R&D?

 

[Dickster]

2 parts of the kit. Adjustable spring to generate more pressure from the pump too much pressure will blow the pump. This is why you will need a Guage to see how much pressure is in the line. The higher the pressure the higher the heat and need a cooler. If you were to to just add a Adjustable flow valve, you could get some improvement but run the risk of not knowing the line pressure and blowing a $1200 pump lol. I wish the new vehicles were old mopar that I grew up with but they are not.

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

most people just need to stop drinking beer for 1 month and they could have the parts.......

I'm going to take it as a good (and bad thing in this "case") that I would have to stop drinking beer a bit longer than that.

 

[Lunentucker]

Link to video?

 

[Dickster]

That was very gracious and generous of you to explain all that.

And it may be the system as it is cannot at all be tweaked for marginal improvement without creating a problem short or long term, or it may not.
Two potential harms exist:
Increasing pressure and
Increasing temperature.
The kit addresses one.
It may or not increase the other.
The kit comes with a gauge and marked margins. Are these based on the pump specs? Apex's R&D?

Not a bunch of R&D but some on how much pressure the pump with take and how much heat before the pump goes into fail safe. Having a bolt on kit with instructions below $500, I can use 2 fingers to turn the wheel not moving on concrete with 38s.

 

[Dickster]

I'm going to take it as a good (and bad thing in this "case") that I would have to stop drinking beer a bit longer than that.

I like beer and whiskey but I like car parts more lmao. The wife is also less likely to say something about parts cost I do not drink at home anymore.

 

[Wolf Island Diver]

I don’t have the Apex kit yet. I’m going to wait until I’m ready to buy a new grill too and do it all at once. It’s supposedly easier on the diesel. My issue will be removing the nightmare AEV bumper and finding a place for the cooler. I’m thinking under the AEV skid plate.

As far as cheaper, simpler hacks alternative to the Apex:

The Apex is the cheap, simple hack. It’s the alternative to hydraulic solutions like PSE and Redneck Ram. Apparently there’s some amount of overhead in the pump to handle additional pressure. I think I read somewhere that it’s basically under spec from the factory. That being said, more pressure = more heat, necessitating additional cooling. I’m actually surprised at the low cost of the Apex.

The only other conceivable alternatives to this is a larger pump (displacement in lieu of boost) or changes to geometry for additional mechanical advantage. A larger pump has packaging issues and probably cost more unless you can find a junk yard steering pump. Also, aren’t these pumps electric where most are belt driven? Good luck finding something that’s compatible and will fit. In that case my time is worth more than $400. A geometry change, perhaps a longer pitman arm ?‍, but it would be reengineering the steering system. Again, that’s probably not cheaper.

I get the desire for alternatives. Not only to save money, but because increasing the pressure in a system should always be a concern. Long term I assume the Apex system decreases the lifespan of the pump. I just don’t think there’s anything that gets us there for this price. Of course there’s always the option to do nothing. That’s the cheapest course of action. I’m running 37s and 90% of the time the issue of turning the wheels doesn’t bother me. It’s those rare instances of parallel parking or occasionally on the trail when I have to maneuver this goofy long truck around something at crawling speed that I wish I had more power.

 

[Dickster]

I don’t have the Apex kit yet. I’m going to wait until I’m ready to buy a new grill too and do it all at once. It’s supposedly easier on the diesel. My issue will be removing the nightmare AEV bumper and finding a place for the cooler. I’m thinking under the AEV skid plate.

As far as cheaper, simpler hacks alternative to the Apex:

The Apex is the cheap, simple hack. It’s the alternative to hydraulic solutions like PSE and Redneck Ram. Apparently there’s some amount of overhead in the pump to handle additional pressure. I think I read somewhere that it’s basically under spec from the factory. That being said, more pressure = more heat, necessitating additional cooling. I’m actually surprised at the low cost of the Apex.

The only other conceivable alternatives to this is a larger pump (displacement in lieu of boost) or changes to geometry for additional mechanical advantage. A larger pump has packaging issues and probably cost more unless you can find a junk yard steering pump. Also, aren’t these pumps electric where most are belt driven? Good luck finding something that’s compatible and will fit. In that case my time is worth more than $400. A geometry change, perhaps a longer pitman arm ?‍, but it would be reengineering the steering system. Again, that’s probably not cheaper.

I get the desire for alternatives. Not only to save money, but because increasing the pressure in a system should always be a concern. Long term I assume the Apex system decreases the lifespan of the pump. I just don’t think there’s anything that gets us there for this price. Of course there’s always the option to do nothing. That’s the cheapest course of action. I’m running 37s and 90% of the time the issue of turning the wheels doesn’t bother me. It’s those rare instances of parallel parking or occasionally on the trail when I have to maneuver this goofy long truck around something at crawling speed that I wish I had more power.

FYI Half the steps you don't need to do. I was able to remove the one screw behind the grill with out taking everything apart. No reason to remove the bumper as there is plenty of room. You actually do not need remove the pump, the air box bracket you need to cut is removed with 4 screws. There is enough movement in the fender liner to do everything you need without removing them either. The plunger for the flow screw/spring stays in place with a touch of grease. I lost maybe 1/4 quart of fluid.

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

FYI Half the steps you don't need to do. I was able to remove the one screw behind the grill with out taking everything apart. No reason to remove the bumper as there is plenty of room. You actually do not need remove the pump, the air box bracket you need to cut is removed with 4 screws. There is enough movement in the fender liner to do everything you need without removing them either. The plunger for the flow screw/spring stays in place with a touch of grease. I lost maybe 1/4 quart of fluid.

It looked like ol boy was getting a bit carried away.

I don’t have the Apex kit yet. I’m going to wait until I’m ready to buy a new grill too and do it all at once. It’s supposedly easier on the diesel. My issue will be removing the nightmare AEV bumper and finding a place for the cooler. I’m thinking under the AEV skid plate.

As far as cheaper, simpler hacks alternative to the Apex:

The Apex is the cheap, simple hack. It’s the alternative to hydraulic solutions like PSE and Redneck Ram. Apparently there’s some amount of overhead in the pump to handle additional pressure. I think I read somewhere that it’s basically under spec from the factory. That being said, more pressure = more heat, necessitating additional cooling. I’m actually surprised at the low cost of the Apex.

The only other conceivable alternatives to this is a larger pump (displacement in lieu of boost) or changes to geometry for additional mechanical advantage. A larger pump has packaging issues and probably cost more unless you can find a junk yard steering pump. Also, aren’t these pumps electric where most are belt driven? Good luck finding something that’s compatible and will fit. In that case my time is worth more than $400. A geometry change, perhaps a longer pitman arm ?‍, but it would be reengineering the steering system. Again, that’s probably not cheaper.

I get the desire for alternatives. Not only to save money, but because increasing the pressure in a system should always be a concern. Long term I assume the Apex system decreases the lifespan of the pump. I just don’t think there’s anything that gets us there for this price. Of course there’s always the option to do nothing. That’s the cheapest course of action. I’m running 37s and 90% of the time the issue of turning the wheels doesn’t bother me. It’s those rare instances of parallel parking or occasionally on the trail when I have to maneuver this goofy long truck around something at crawling speed that I wish I had more power.

I don't have a problem turning the wheel in any circumstance I've encountered yet and partly because as a rule in any vehicle I don't turn the steering wheel unless the tires are moving. Something I was taught in driver's Ed or mechanics class or by an older wrencher. Ntm it's verboten on paver driveways which many of my customers have. This isn't always possible on the trail but my trails are sand and mud on mostly level ground. I can see where this is more of a necessity for the rock crawlers.
I've got a Pitman arm and sector shaft brace to help with the steering stability and geometry, but the idea of giving the steering box a little tweak sounds appealing and like I said as much for the novelty as practicality.
And yeah, I wouldn't put anything else in front of the diesel radiator.

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