Gladiator ‘overlanding’ weights and implications

[chorky]

So weights has been something discussed here a ton. From factory weights to fully modified and everything inbetween. Lots of discussion on the implications of being heavy, or overweight vs underweight etc

I just wanted to put a little plug in here on what I saw, and am sure others have seen. The Epic Family Roadtrip Jeep recently had some pretty major issues. By chance through a different repair it was found their rear spring mounts at the frame were cracking and pulling away from the frame.

They were able to get it re-welded and repaired.

Now we all know this family has put on a lot of miles. But this is a good reminder that added weight does have consequences.

It is important to note they are using the AEV HD springs AND bags on top of that so they gotta be WAY over GAW. But it is still something to keep in mind with heavy builds and how a vehicle is driven being heavy.

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[bd100]

Some camping trailers with the torsion beam suspension have the same problem. All the weight is focused on that one point. Leaf spring suspension has an advantage in that the static weight is supported at two points, one in front of and one behind the axle. And the dynamic shock absorber forces are at a third point in between the other two. All that force is spread out over much of the length of the back frame, including some support way out near the tail end.

 

[chorky]

Referencing the above photo - I had a question - specifically for those who have swapped out axles.

In doing so, weather you did it yourself or a shop did it, was there any consideration to changing or beefing up the spring perch and/or shock mount?

I believe @ShadowsPapa mentioned on another thread a while ago that welding on these high strength hydro formed frames is a whole different animal compared to old school frames.

 

[CrazyCooter]

The Epic family is traveling in JLs? Our JTs have a much more robust upper spring seat. That said, we also have more room to carry more cargo to help the potential overload condition.

Shock mounts are less of a concern. Firts you have to be running a shock that is capable of applying that much force which pretty much nobody here is.. Many coilover kits out on the market use the OE shockmount to support 100% of the rear axles weight. Im not a fan of the way this method spreads to forces to the chassis, but the brackets do seem to hold up?

 

[chorky]

The Epic family is traveling in JLs? Our JTs have a much more robust upper spring seat. That said, we also have more room to carry more cargo to help the potential overload condition.

Shock mounts are less of a concern. Firts you have to be running a shock that is capable of applying that much force which pretty much nobody here is.. Many coilover kits out on the market use the OE shockmount to support 100% of the rear axles weight. Im not a fan of the way this method spreads to forces to the chassis, but the brackets do seem to hold up?

Yessir - they have, or had? two of them. This was on a trip in the states they made and it had to temporarily get welded. I honestly think this was not due to weight, but to a bad weld that rusted....and of course weight didn't help.

You said one thing I was just wondering - how the spring seats are. I dont have a JL to compare and was curious if they were the same or heavier duty. One would expect heavier duty - I mean it's a truck after all...but I didn't know for sure. There are a lot of people here that are overloaded. In fact I would be willing to bet a paycheck that at least 80% of folks here are over GVWR when outfitted for a weekend or week long trip. After all, the JT has the same technical rating as the JL but it has 500 extra pounds worth of steel for the bed/frame.

What do you think about the upcoming full floating axle? Have you looked into that much? I am hoping and thinking it will have the same mounting options as current wide axles for the JT - so maybe its a simple bolt on application??

 

[CrazyCooter]

Yessir - they have, or had? two of them. This was on a trip in the states they made and it had to temporarily get welded. I honestly think this was not due to weight, but to a bad weld that rusted....and of course weight didn't help.

You said one thing I was just wondering - how the spring seats are. I dont have a JL to compare and was curious if they were the same or heavier duty. One would expect heavier duty - I mean it's a truck after all...but I didn't know for sure. There are a lot of people here that are overloaded. In fact I would be willing to bet a paycheck that at least 80% of folks here are over GVWR when outfitted for a weekend or week long trip. After all, the JT has the same technical rating as the JL but it has 500 extra pounds worth of steel for the bed/frame.

What do you think about the upcoming full floating axle? Have you looked into that much? I am hoping and thinking it will have the same mounting options as current wide axles for the JT - so maybe its a simple bolt on application??

Yes, the robo weld could be inferior from the start, but that break is super common on vehicles that frequenty off road. Even my buddy that runs one of the lightest spring rates had his crack. When things are engineered on the light side, they are only good for so many cycles before there is a failure.

Another factor is spreading the loads out. If the shocks are weak and the spring takes more if the load from the hit, that bracket will fail sooner. A properly valved shock will damp some of that energy spreading it into more points on the chassis.

I also see regularly where people stack spring spacers on top of light weight springs to level without considering the block height of the spring and bumping for that too. That condition make the spring/seats the rigid bump point and is a voiolent stop especially with weak shocks.

Our trucks also have a much heavier axle tube, however I did have a truck in the shop recently that gets flogged real hard where the recently installed diff cover was leaking only on the sides where the tubes come into the housing. The 2 bolts on each side were also loose and I know they were all torqued when it left. I can only assume the cast center flexing was the cause. This has me rethinking whether or not the rear axle needs a truss for extreme application?

I was just looking over the full float axle info on the net lest night as a little bit more info has come available. I can only assume it's a upgrade since the unit bearing should handle side loads better. For the JLs, the biggest upgrade is probably getting the JT tubes. The people running 38"+ tires who are bending axles flanges will benefit for sure. I haven't seen a single JL/JT axle bearing fail and they have been on the road almost 6 years? I don't see the reason to rush out and retrofit one for your purpose.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Another factor is spreading the loads out. If the shocks are weak and the spring takes more if the load from the hit, that bracket will fail sooner. A properly valved shock will damp some of that energy spreading it into more points on the chassis.

Bingo. one reason I don't like wimpy shocks or shocks that bounce more than a rebound and then settle type of thing.

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