Redfour5
Well-Known Member
- Thread starter
- #1
Being retired, I have found what I consider the most efficient way to find out the details on vehicles you want on dealer lots without ordering... So, if you are looking, try this out. Others may know some tricks also so I wanted to make a thread of it. Many regular people who only shop cars every few years don't know this I'm finding...
Where do I look?
First is where to look, in general. There are many sites out there but over time, I have found CarGurus to be my personal go to. You might like a different one. Like I said there are others. But for CarGurus, It is easy to search by your zip code for vehicles on your phone or home computer. You can limit your search to 25 miles or for the whole country and many choices in miles away from where you live. You can then put the exact vehicle you want in down to trim levels (e.g. Mojave, Rubicon, Sport). Then you can hone in on critical "features" you might want and packages. Sometimes with packages, you have to know the numbers or you can just search on general about a package and it will usually kick you back to a forum like this and threads with the answers I've found. I also recommend using the filters either engine, fuel type to eliminate what you do NOT want like Diesel and/or gas. But you can also hone in for what you want if you know, for example, you want a High Output Cummins Diesel for a Ram 2500, you can put that in and it will only pull those up. It's important to know that these search engines won't get ALL dealers. you may find some small dealers in rural areas are not on these websites, but it's gotta be in the 97% range I'd say... And they update quickly. I'm buying a Gladiator right now and they sold the color I want yesterday and it was off Cargurus by this morning. It has to do with the dealers and how quickly they update some kind of centralized sales system I have heard where the data is accessed by the car search search engines.
Drilling down
I personally am willing to drive up to 500 miles to get a good deal and have already done this on a Ram 2500 saving a bunch and getting a good trade value... So, that's a good distance to search on for me. You can do 100, 200 300 mile searches if you want. I do recommend it.
Now, for the filters on the website and limitations. If you know what you are specifically looking for, you will find the limits of these search engines. The features they offer for you to search on aren't very detailed. It can be frustrating if you know exactly what you are looking for and it is NOT included in the "features" filters of a website... For example. I want to make sure I get a limited slip differential on my Gladiator. You are not going to find it on one of these websites like Car Gurus. In fact I realized that apparently most people who order Gladiators don't order them for some reason and you are stuck with regular four wheel drive. MOST people don't know the difference. Many managers don't. I do from experience of having bought the basic 4WD on a Ram 1500 and trying to escape the area where my neighborhood's mailboxes are. We all suffer there but not with the right features on your vehicle. For dealerships, It all comes down to who orders the units for the dealership. I identify the dealers and often go to their websites as most will allow you to access the "monroney" for vehicles on their websites. A monroney is the window sticker for those who don't know.
Window sticker (linked)
So, how do you find out more details on what you are looking for? Well, the "window sticker" is a good place to start and will have most of the information including individual feature pricing as I'm sure anyone shopping knows. Have you noticed how hard it is to see them through the glass at a dealership? Well, when you are on CarGurus, you can find the VIN number for the vehicle on the website. I just copy it and go to this link to get a window sticker for FCA products. GM and Ford also have sites like this... So, go to https://lancelhoff.com/jeep-window-sticker-from-vin/ and go down the page a bit and simply paste the VIN in and it will take you to an official FCA/Stellantis website with the window sticker... This link will access all FCA/Stellantis vehicles if you put a VIN in. If you think this is easy, put window sticker by VIN in a search engine and a million scam websites will pop up. I've been through them all this link is pretty clean and takes you to an official Monroney from Stellantis.
Build Sheet (linked)
But there is one more level of detail you can get to and that is the "build sheet" for your vehicle that goes into even more level of detail. For FCA/Stellantis products, you can locate that at https://fcagroup.my.site.com/RAM/s/equipment-listing Now, this site says RAM but it goes to all FCA/Stellantis vehicles. This is basically the very same sheet used for assembling your vehicle at the factory so it goes into great detail on exactly what is in and on your vehicle by standard features and then options/upgrades. I recommend downloading both a window sticker and a build sheet once you buy a car. These can be valuable later when you want to trade or sell...
General overview of how I do it.
So, what I do is say, OK I want to find a gladiator with these basic features. I go to CarGurus and do my search. For general research I'll do US wide searches and look for like the "least expensive" feature set. This will show you the least expensive version of what you want anywhere in the country. You will find that the cheapest is almost always thousands of miles away.. Some people will fly in and some dealers actually sell this way have deals with local hotels, come pick you up and you drive it home. You can do the math and save quite a bit of money in some cases. Up in Northern Idaho, there are a few dealers who operate like this including Dennis Dillon or Dave Smith. I know there are others in the country. But generally, there are even better deals...if you are willing to travel.
So, once you have done your overview search, I will scan closer to home and like with the Gladiator I'm looking at I found the least expensive within my 500 mile radius. I then go and look at the Monroney's (window stickers) by copying and pasting them into the window sticker search engine. On this search I'm on now, I've looked at well over a hundred window stickers as I WANT a specific set of features not on the websites. I want what is called Selec Trac full time all wheel drive AND Trac Lock the limited slip differential. This combination even Selec Track alone are very rare creatures on dealer lots, very rare, both together is almost impossible to find. But I did find may five or six srpinkled around the NW part of the country ranging from Salt Lake City to Seattle and surprisingly in Williston North Dakota on one... You don't find these things unless you dig or order it and pay for it. I want these things in a 2023 with all the discounts. Its not easy but anyway.
I found a dealer who is matching the Stellantis 15% off MSRP deal here in Nov 2023. So, 30% off. I can't believe it and its only a six hour drive so, I'll stop in Spokane and get some really good food at Post Falls (The White House/Sea Bass) and do the final hundred or so miles in the morning, do the deal and drive home in one day this coming week. It's a fun adventure for an old fart retired but loving the NW.
And so, this is how you can maybe find what you want on a dealer's lot within a reasonable distance from your home. And always remember dealers vary greatly in terms of honesty, integrity and how they will make as much money as possible off you. It isn't even personal. It's business and let the buyer beware and you better be. They can sell you a car cheap and you go hey I got a great deal... And then they will get you back on the trade in by giving you a couple of thousand less than you might get elsewhere and your deal isn't quite as good as you thought. Or if they do the financing, they may have a deal with finance companies where they get a cut so you very likely can beat the rate at a dealership with a local credit union but not always. The dealer on my Ram 2500 beat my best rate by .25%. This was at the auto ranch in Ontario Idaho, right on the border with WA. The one I'm working with now is 30% off on the truck MSRP with no fees to speak of snuck in on the sale, but he is definitely low balled me a couple K on the trade. At the same time he does have to replace the front windshield, windshield wiper tubes and the gps is acting up, but I DON'T and since i'm coming up on five years all those Sirius goodies like weather, gas prices, will disappear here at the five year mark on my Renegade. And his deal is still five thousand bucks better than anyone else within 500 miles at least. So, I do the math and stick, don't argue. If the math goes south, so do I.
I can also beat his interest rate by a good bit, like 5.29 for 72 months with Navy Federal Credit Union (I was and am a Marine) but now I don't have time to get the deal done with Navy Federal Credit Union who does things a bit differently by sending a check to YOU to do the deal weird...but have the best rates in the country along with Penn Federal Credit Union... So, I'm getting screwed there right? Nope, not really, as I have done before, I just refinance the thing as soon as the math works out in my favor. I may still do the Navy Federal thing when I get back but right now, interest rates are falling in the housing market and rumored to be something that could happen down to the auto loan RV loan field over the next few months so, I may watch that for a bit... I'll do some research there and decide...
So, good luck in your search. This approach works for me on Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Ram products and why you will often see CDJR attached to the names of their dealerships. It can be fun...
So, this is how I do it. Generally speaking I save a whole lot of money this way and I mean thousands doing this. Now if working, living your life before retirement, I know how valuable your time is but even doing a 100 mile radius search will give you more choices instead of just trotting down to the nearest dealer and saying sell me a car. They will and you will have less in your pocket, I promise.
Profit centers - What? this is where the dealers make their money and what you need to watch. First is the price itself and anyone trying to buy a car during Covid knows this as dealers "marked up" "market adjustment" on their vehicles... Grrrr but Caveat Emptor... So, the closer to MSRP they sell the less of a deal you get.
Dealer fees are a prime area. And they also make money in other places. It has gotten so bad that some states have passed laws like Washington that force them to be transparent on what fees are charged, limiting them etc. Many states have no rules. Almost ALL FEES are negotiable by law... so, that 500 buck transaction fee for paperwork, don't pay it or agree on a hundred bucks.
Dealer accessories are another profit center. That's things like the "pulse" light system they put on for 400 bucks that makes your stop lights go off and on to remind drivers behind you you are stopping, or LoJack or etched security items or in the old days, undercoating and so one. Be assured they pay very very little for these and charge you a lot more and since it is already on the car? How are you gonna argue with them... I actually like the pulse thing so, a couple hundred bucks was worth it even if I could have put it on for 50 and a little elbow grease. Especially with half the world looking at their phones now days... But that's me.. It's a profit center for the dealer.
Trade ins are a big profit center. They make a lot of their money here. And there are basically two types of trades. One is the trade that they do NOT intend to sell on their lot as it is too far gone. They will take it to the local auction and get a minimum for it. You get less. But good trades where the car is in decent shape they don't have to put TOO MUCH time or money and they can mark it up a few thousand bucks, well now we are talking real money. So, KNOW what your car is worth by looking online at places like CarGurus.
Where do I look?
First is where to look, in general. There are many sites out there but over time, I have found CarGurus to be my personal go to. You might like a different one. Like I said there are others. But for CarGurus, It is easy to search by your zip code for vehicles on your phone or home computer. You can limit your search to 25 miles or for the whole country and many choices in miles away from where you live. You can then put the exact vehicle you want in down to trim levels (e.g. Mojave, Rubicon, Sport). Then you can hone in on critical "features" you might want and packages. Sometimes with packages, you have to know the numbers or you can just search on general about a package and it will usually kick you back to a forum like this and threads with the answers I've found. I also recommend using the filters either engine, fuel type to eliminate what you do NOT want like Diesel and/or gas. But you can also hone in for what you want if you know, for example, you want a High Output Cummins Diesel for a Ram 2500, you can put that in and it will only pull those up. It's important to know that these search engines won't get ALL dealers. you may find some small dealers in rural areas are not on these websites, but it's gotta be in the 97% range I'd say... And they update quickly. I'm buying a Gladiator right now and they sold the color I want yesterday and it was off Cargurus by this morning. It has to do with the dealers and how quickly they update some kind of centralized sales system I have heard where the data is accessed by the car search search engines.
Drilling down
I personally am willing to drive up to 500 miles to get a good deal and have already done this on a Ram 2500 saving a bunch and getting a good trade value... So, that's a good distance to search on for me. You can do 100, 200 300 mile searches if you want. I do recommend it.
Now, for the filters on the website and limitations. If you know what you are specifically looking for, you will find the limits of these search engines. The features they offer for you to search on aren't very detailed. It can be frustrating if you know exactly what you are looking for and it is NOT included in the "features" filters of a website... For example. I want to make sure I get a limited slip differential on my Gladiator. You are not going to find it on one of these websites like Car Gurus. In fact I realized that apparently most people who order Gladiators don't order them for some reason and you are stuck with regular four wheel drive. MOST people don't know the difference. Many managers don't. I do from experience of having bought the basic 4WD on a Ram 1500 and trying to escape the area where my neighborhood's mailboxes are. We all suffer there but not with the right features on your vehicle. For dealerships, It all comes down to who orders the units for the dealership. I identify the dealers and often go to their websites as most will allow you to access the "monroney" for vehicles on their websites. A monroney is the window sticker for those who don't know.
Window sticker (linked)
So, how do you find out more details on what you are looking for? Well, the "window sticker" is a good place to start and will have most of the information including individual feature pricing as I'm sure anyone shopping knows. Have you noticed how hard it is to see them through the glass at a dealership? Well, when you are on CarGurus, you can find the VIN number for the vehicle on the website. I just copy it and go to this link to get a window sticker for FCA products. GM and Ford also have sites like this... So, go to https://lancelhoff.com/jeep-window-sticker-from-vin/ and go down the page a bit and simply paste the VIN in and it will take you to an official FCA/Stellantis website with the window sticker... This link will access all FCA/Stellantis vehicles if you put a VIN in. If you think this is easy, put window sticker by VIN in a search engine and a million scam websites will pop up. I've been through them all this link is pretty clean and takes you to an official Monroney from Stellantis.
Build Sheet (linked)
But there is one more level of detail you can get to and that is the "build sheet" for your vehicle that goes into even more level of detail. For FCA/Stellantis products, you can locate that at https://fcagroup.my.site.com/RAM/s/equipment-listing Now, this site says RAM but it goes to all FCA/Stellantis vehicles. This is basically the very same sheet used for assembling your vehicle at the factory so it goes into great detail on exactly what is in and on your vehicle by standard features and then options/upgrades. I recommend downloading both a window sticker and a build sheet once you buy a car. These can be valuable later when you want to trade or sell...
General overview of how I do it.
So, what I do is say, OK I want to find a gladiator with these basic features. I go to CarGurus and do my search. For general research I'll do US wide searches and look for like the "least expensive" feature set. This will show you the least expensive version of what you want anywhere in the country. You will find that the cheapest is almost always thousands of miles away.. Some people will fly in and some dealers actually sell this way have deals with local hotels, come pick you up and you drive it home. You can do the math and save quite a bit of money in some cases. Up in Northern Idaho, there are a few dealers who operate like this including Dennis Dillon or Dave Smith. I know there are others in the country. But generally, there are even better deals...if you are willing to travel.
So, once you have done your overview search, I will scan closer to home and like with the Gladiator I'm looking at I found the least expensive within my 500 mile radius. I then go and look at the Monroney's (window stickers) by copying and pasting them into the window sticker search engine. On this search I'm on now, I've looked at well over a hundred window stickers as I WANT a specific set of features not on the websites. I want what is called Selec Trac full time all wheel drive AND Trac Lock the limited slip differential. This combination even Selec Track alone are very rare creatures on dealer lots, very rare, both together is almost impossible to find. But I did find may five or six srpinkled around the NW part of the country ranging from Salt Lake City to Seattle and surprisingly in Williston North Dakota on one... You don't find these things unless you dig or order it and pay for it. I want these things in a 2023 with all the discounts. Its not easy but anyway.
I found a dealer who is matching the Stellantis 15% off MSRP deal here in Nov 2023. So, 30% off. I can't believe it and its only a six hour drive so, I'll stop in Spokane and get some really good food at Post Falls (The White House/Sea Bass) and do the final hundred or so miles in the morning, do the deal and drive home in one day this coming week. It's a fun adventure for an old fart retired but loving the NW.
And so, this is how you can maybe find what you want on a dealer's lot within a reasonable distance from your home. And always remember dealers vary greatly in terms of honesty, integrity and how they will make as much money as possible off you. It isn't even personal. It's business and let the buyer beware and you better be. They can sell you a car cheap and you go hey I got a great deal... And then they will get you back on the trade in by giving you a couple of thousand less than you might get elsewhere and your deal isn't quite as good as you thought. Or if they do the financing, they may have a deal with finance companies where they get a cut so you very likely can beat the rate at a dealership with a local credit union but not always. The dealer on my Ram 2500 beat my best rate by .25%. This was at the auto ranch in Ontario Idaho, right on the border with WA. The one I'm working with now is 30% off on the truck MSRP with no fees to speak of snuck in on the sale, but he is definitely low balled me a couple K on the trade. At the same time he does have to replace the front windshield, windshield wiper tubes and the gps is acting up, but I DON'T and since i'm coming up on five years all those Sirius goodies like weather, gas prices, will disappear here at the five year mark on my Renegade. And his deal is still five thousand bucks better than anyone else within 500 miles at least. So, I do the math and stick, don't argue. If the math goes south, so do I.
I can also beat his interest rate by a good bit, like 5.29 for 72 months with Navy Federal Credit Union (I was and am a Marine) but now I don't have time to get the deal done with Navy Federal Credit Union who does things a bit differently by sending a check to YOU to do the deal weird...but have the best rates in the country along with Penn Federal Credit Union... So, I'm getting screwed there right? Nope, not really, as I have done before, I just refinance the thing as soon as the math works out in my favor. I may still do the Navy Federal thing when I get back but right now, interest rates are falling in the housing market and rumored to be something that could happen down to the auto loan RV loan field over the next few months so, I may watch that for a bit... I'll do some research there and decide...
So, good luck in your search. This approach works for me on Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Ram products and why you will often see CDJR attached to the names of their dealerships. It can be fun...
So, this is how I do it. Generally speaking I save a whole lot of money this way and I mean thousands doing this. Now if working, living your life before retirement, I know how valuable your time is but even doing a 100 mile radius search will give you more choices instead of just trotting down to the nearest dealer and saying sell me a car. They will and you will have less in your pocket, I promise.
Profit centers - What? this is where the dealers make their money and what you need to watch. First is the price itself and anyone trying to buy a car during Covid knows this as dealers "marked up" "market adjustment" on their vehicles... Grrrr but Caveat Emptor... So, the closer to MSRP they sell the less of a deal you get.
Dealer fees are a prime area. And they also make money in other places. It has gotten so bad that some states have passed laws like Washington that force them to be transparent on what fees are charged, limiting them etc. Many states have no rules. Almost ALL FEES are negotiable by law... so, that 500 buck transaction fee for paperwork, don't pay it or agree on a hundred bucks.
Dealer accessories are another profit center. That's things like the "pulse" light system they put on for 400 bucks that makes your stop lights go off and on to remind drivers behind you you are stopping, or LoJack or etched security items or in the old days, undercoating and so one. Be assured they pay very very little for these and charge you a lot more and since it is already on the car? How are you gonna argue with them... I actually like the pulse thing so, a couple hundred bucks was worth it even if I could have put it on for 50 and a little elbow grease. Especially with half the world looking at their phones now days... But that's me.. It's a profit center for the dealer.
Trade ins are a big profit center. They make a lot of their money here. And there are basically two types of trades. One is the trade that they do NOT intend to sell on their lot as it is too far gone. They will take it to the local auction and get a minimum for it. You get less. But good trades where the car is in decent shape they don't have to put TOO MUCH time or money and they can mark it up a few thousand bucks, well now we are talking real money. So, KNOW what your car is worth by looking online at places like CarGurus.
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