Death wobble

[ShadowsPapa]

it can be, There is enough slack in the mount holes and the stock bolts don't fully fill. which means if your not careful you can end up having a full 1/2in of difference between both side. you can either upsize the bolts DIY from McMasterCarr or a kit for MC, or you can be super attentive and make sure both sides measure equal before you torque em down. This is why its recommended to do one arm at a time on the ground rather than lift and let the truck hang. I went from stock to the Mopar 2in lift extended arms and made this mistake and wondered why no matter the alignment my truck tracked left and the dumb dealer tech said my cross caster was just off. Which it can't be unless the axle is bent cus thats a welded in spec. After enough headache i decided to redo and see if i missed something, lo and behold the passenger side was all the way forward in the frame perch and the driver was all the way back. so i loosend both and got a 2x 2in 33k rachet straps and pulled it as tight to the rear axle as possible till both sides sat in their perch equal. then i retorqued and the truck tracked straight again.

There's no slack in the factory holes unless they got wallowed out, worm.
I've had both of mine apart multiple times - the holes in the brackets were perfectly round and just barely big enough for the bolts to to through. That's why I had to use straps and a bar to line things up exactly just to get a bolt through.

1/2" difference isn't going to be what allowed the spring to bow......there's just no way to have that much difference in a factory setup as the holes don't allow for any shifting of the control arms.

This is why its recommended to do one arm at a time on the ground rather than lift and let the truck hang

Not the reason.

The reason for one at a time is because if you take them both out, the axle can literally twist because there's noting to prevent it if both arm are removed
and
the other reason is you want to torque/tighten the bolts with the vehicle on the ground, all 4 wheels on the ground. Can't do that on a 2 post lift. The suspension hangs.

However, if you do like I've done (both on the ground and with the truck on stands under the frame, axle hanging down), you can block the front wheels front and rear and prevent the axle from twisting while you take the lower control arms out, or use a couple of straps to keep the axle from shifting.
You can then adjust the straps to line the holes up.
Then if the truck was supported on stands, you set it down and torque the bolts.
It can be done on a lift, and it can be done with both control arms out, but you need to prevent the axle from shifting or twisting while both arms are out.

i've done one at a time, and I've done it by taking both out. No big deal either way, just prevent axle movement by some means.
And the holes are just the right size, it's impossible to have one side shift enough to cause spring bow with the factory setup - unless your bolt holes in the brackets are badly worn.
None of the control arm bracket holes on either of my trucks was ever worn to allow any axle shift, or cause caster issues. I could loosen all of the control arm bolts - and the axle can't be moved forward or backward, or twisted in any way - the bolts are just too snug in the holes.
They can't have those holes be a problem from the factory or they'd have trouble installing the axle and moving it down the line with caster in spec. The holes must be carefully controlled.

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[kevman65]

A few things to clear up.

Some lifts have fixed length lower control arms and adjustable upper control arms. Argue the pros and cons among yourselves, I don't care.

*IF* you have control arms that the bushings are NOT bonded to the control arm, you can tighten them either in the air or on the ground. If the bushings are bonded to the control arm, then they MUST be tightened on the ground, full weight on the tires. Otherwise the control arms will be in a bind.

It IS possible the axle was out of alignment from the factory. There have been cases (very few) where the frame fixtures were not located and welded in the correct position to each other. Face it, crap happens.


*EDIT* On the bushings, easiest way to tell is if you have a circlip (C-Clip) on each side of the bushing, they are NOT bonded.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

A few things to clear up.

Some lifts have fixed length lower control arms and adjustable upper control arms. Argue the pros and cons among yourselves, I don't care.

*IF* you have control arms that the bushings are NOT bonded to the control arm, you can tighten them either in the air or on the ground. If the bushings are bonded to the control arm, then they MUST be tightened on the ground, full weight on the tires. Otherwise the control arms will be in a bind.

It IS possible the axle was out of alignment from the factory. There have been cases (very few) where the frame fixtures were not located and welded in the correct position to each other. Face it, crap happens.

The bit about bushings - the bonded will be rubber, easy as heck to tell by looking. Others could be poly (not bonded) or other materials.
That's a good point.

Yeah, the brackets mis-located from the factory. That does happen on rare occasion - it's been mentioned even here.
That's due to bracket misplacement. That can't easily be fixed other than with geometry correcting brackets (and this big a lift - good idea, IMO) or with adjustable control arms to compensate for the crappy bracket location.

 

[PuddleJumper]

There's no slack in the factory holes unless they got wallowed out, worm.
I've had both of mine apart multiple times - the holes in the brackets were perfectly round and just barely big enough for the bolts to to through. That's why I had to use straps and a bar to line things up exactly just to get a bolt through.

1/2" difference isn't going to be what allowed the spring to bow......there's just no way to have that much difference in a factory setup as the holes don't allow for any shifting of the control arms.



Not the reason.

The reason for one at a time is because if you take them both out, the axle can literally twist because there's noting to prevent it if both arm are removed
and
the other reason is you want to torque/tighten the bolts with the vehicle on the ground, all 4 wheels on the ground. Can't do that on a 2 post lift. The suspension hangs.

However, if you do like I've done (both on the ground and with the truck on stands under the frame, axle hanging down), you can block the front wheels front and rear and prevent the axle from twisting while you take the lower control arms out, or use a couple of straps to keep the axle from shifting.
You can then adjust the straps to line the holes up.
Then if the truck was supported on stands, you set it down and torque the bolts.
It can be done on a lift, and it can be done with both control arms out, but you need to prevent the axle from shifting or twisting while both arms are out.

i've done one at a time, and I've done it by taking both out. No big deal either way, just prevent axle movement by some means.
And the holes are just the right size, it's impossible to have one side shift enough to cause spring bow with the factory setup - unless your bolt holes in the brackets are badly worn.
None of the control arm bracket holes on either of my trucks was ever worn to allow any axle shift, or cause caster issues. I could loosen all of the control arm bolts - and the axle can't be moved forward or backward, or twisted in any way - the bolts are just too snug in the holes.
They can't have those holes be a problem from the factory or they'd have trouble installing the axle and moving it down the line with caster in spec. The holes must be carefully controlled.

i follow your reason to do one at a time. But i beg to differ on the bolt hole sizing. maybe my Mojave has different frame brackets but the fact alone that kits exist to upsize bolts because factory hardware is a bit undersize backs my argument. Can a loose bolt wallow out the hole, sure. You'd fuckin hear it tho, and it wouldn't be prevalent in a vehicle under a thousand miles, and properly torqued either. It also would be oblong and bare metal, not a perfect still black painted hole. If the bolts were too snug there is no way that standard hardware that is upsized would fit in with out stepping the hole larger. there's slack in the bushing sleeve and the bracket holes compared to the bolt size given. which is fine considering the joint is designed to hold via clamping force not on the bolt itself. consider these minor amopunts of slack alone it wouldn;t pose a problem, but between 2 joints it adds up. And after your use of "worm", I'm inclined to waste an hour to pull a bolt and make a video to concrete my stance.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

i follow your reason to do one at a time. But i beg to differ on the bolt hole sizing. maybe my Mojave has different frame brackets but the fact alone that kits exist to upsize bolts because factory hardware is a bit undersize backs my argument. Can a loose bolt wallow out the hole, sure. You'd fuckin hear it tho, and it wouldn't be prevalent in a vehicle under a thousand miles, and properly torqued either. It also would be oblong and bare metal, not a perfect still black painted hole. If the bolts were too snug there is no way that standard hardware that is upsized would fit in with out stepping the hole larger. there's slack in the bushing sleeve and the bracket holes compared to the bolt size given. which is fine considering the joint is designed to hold via clamping force not on the bolt itself. consider these minor amopunts of slack alone it wouldn;t pose a problem, but between 2 joints it adds up. And after your use of "worm", I'm inclined to waste an hour to pull a bolt and make a video to concrete my stance.

You'd never get larger bolts through the control arm bushings, or the bracket holes on mine - without drilling or reaming the holes out. There just wasn't any play. I had to use the strap, and then a long tapered punch, to line the holes up just right and aim the bolts straight in.
No slack on mine.

you'd not necessarily hear it - read back on other posts where people have found loose bolts when checking them. there's posts where people have put on pain marks as a means to check for movement because they found things loose.

 

[RoamingGladiator]

What shop installed a 3.5" lift without adjustable control arms or drop brackets... holy moly. Thats insane.

 

[PuddleJumper]

You'd never get larger bolts through the control arm bushings, or the bracket holes on mine - without drilling or reaming the holes out. There just wasn't any play. I had to use the strap, and then a long tapered punch, to line the holes up just right and aim the bolts straight in.
No slack on mine.

you'd not necessarily hear it - read back on other posts where people have found loose bolts when checking them. there's posts where people have put on pain marks as a means to check for movement because they found things loose.

we do have different frame codes. I keep thinking you bought that Mojave but your info says your still in an overland. I do regularly bolt check, but I am young and my ears are still good, 90% of the time i've heard a loose bolt before a visually found it.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

we do have different frame codes. I keep thinking you bought that Mojave but your info says your still in an overland. I do regularly bolt check, but I am young and my ears are still good, 90% of the time i've heard a loose bolt before a visually found it.

My next one would likely be Mojave.
I'm rather serious about suspension and steering - if the holes in the brackets on mine were loose around the bolts, even though I know things should not shift when tight - it would bug me to no end.

I didn't get pictures of the brackets last control arm swap - only the end of the arm, and showing something changed between 2020 and 2022 - they added a large washer on the inside of the bracket that goes on before the nut. I found that an interesting change.

I'd rip into it to measure sizes of things but shopping this morning showed me, much to my wife's dismay, that I'm still not up for full duty - I lifted 20 pounds this AM and it really pulled at some of the incision areas - supposedly I should be past that, but a week after the surgery, the guy said "nothing over 10 pounds for another 3 to 4 weeks" so I guess this is out for a few days. He said he really had to pull things open in there - so I'll feel it for a while.

 

[PuddleJumper]

My next one would likely be Mojave.
I'm rather serious about suspension and steering - if the holes in the brackets on mine were loose around the bolts, even though I know things should not shift when tight - it would bug me to no end.

I didn't get pictures of the brackets last control arm swap - only the end of the arm, and showing something changed between 2020 and 2022 - they added a large washer on the inside of the bracket that goes on before the nut. I found that an interesting change.

I'd rip into it to measure sizes of things but shopping this morning showed me, much to my wife's dismay, that I'm still not up for full duty - I lifted 20 pounds this AM and it really pulled at some of the incision areas - supposedly I should be past that, but a week after the surgery, the guy said "nothing over 10 pounds for another 3 to 4 weeks" so I guess this is out for a few days. He said he really had to pull things open in there - so I'll feel it for a while.

yeah that washer was my visible giveaway. its edge protruded past the edge of the bracket, and I thought that shouldn't be possible, the whole reason i went with non adjustable arms is because i didn't want to have to adjust them. ended up having to adjust them.

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