Bent Frames - Big Thing or isolated?

[Dakarra]

crazy enough I just saw the same video! this is the point in the video that shows the frames bending. honestly his repair seems pretty darn bullet proof.

Probably is "bullet proof" as a preventative measure, but once the frame has been bent or cracked it would be hard to trust it again.

Sponsored

 

[ShadowsPapa]

That's a fair point and I can't speak for anyone else's driving/loading behavior. For myself I have not towed my trailer off-road at all. Period. The towed weight never exceeded about 3,500 lbs, and the tongue weight never exceeded about 300 pounds. Since my stock Willys (with tow package) is rated at 6,000 lbs I have been well within rated loads for the vehicle. The one thing is that I have towed it a long way multiple times - back and forth from Texas to Kentucky, Tennessee, Mississippi, Colorado, and Arizona. So have I towed it far? Yes, but always FAR under OEM rated weight/loads.

My second response to you is that I believe there are more of these failures than people realize. The JT has been around for what - 5 years? Unless there is a catastrophic failure caused by some "high energy event" this is not the kind of failure that manifests overnight. By this I mean, someone would need to be towing as much as I do for a problem to show up, and its not going to show up all at once.

According to Stelantis, there have been appx 345,000 Gladiators produced since introduction. From that number, how many are used for towing? For this point I will use an arbitrary 10% - with that arbitrary percentage you have about 34,000 customers that use their JTs for towing. From that number you would further reduce by the number that tow as much as I do - we'll use another arbitrary 10%. So from all the Gladiators produced there are probably about 3,400 that might experience this failure - or about 1% of the total units produced.

What all that elementary school math adds up to is that there are probably about 1% of the Gladiators produced that will experience this problem. The cautionary take-away is that if one is using their JT for towing it would not be a bad idea to get the frame checked by a certified shop.

Final point - I personally spoke to three different shops that have encountered this problem enough times that they have invested in developing a repair. One of the companies is even having their repair patented. You can tell me I'm crazy all you want, and you can tell me I must be abusing my vehicle - but business owners don't invest the resources to design and patent a repair unless they think there will a market for it.

Proper towing won't crack frames.
Anyone jumping with a trailer connected is IMO, abusing it.
These weren't marketed as something you take out and make big jumps with, especially with any load.
you won't be cracking a frame while towing. The physics and geometry just isn't there
I tow - 5,000 pounds and 500 pound tongue weight. There's no way in hell I'm going to crack a frame towing.
If I take that rig off road with a trailer and make some serious bounces, even leaving the ground, then I'm being dumb.

 

[piroman683]

What I find interesting is the talk of "jumps" - has Jeep ever really marketed these as Dukes of Hazard type jumping vehicles?
Isn't jumping a bit beyond what they were marketed for? I've not seen anything on TV with a Jeep actually taking what I call any sort of jump.

I brought up jumping as an example of abuse that has not resulted in a cracked frame. I choose to jump my truck, I dont expect others to share in the same thrills I do

 

[piroman683]

I brought up jumping as an example of abuse that has not resulted in a cracked frame. I choose to jump my truck, I dont expect others to share in the same thrills I do

correcction, not resulted in a cracked frame WITHOUT having anything towed behind**

 

[Dakarra]

a crack is different then a bend. Cracks are from cyclic loading, and usually are not from normal driving/towing conditions. To crack in that location requires a lot of off-nominal driving conditions (with or without towing).

Also, to the OP's point, maybe 3,400 vehicles could be affected - maybe. I'd be surprised if all 3 shops had more than 10+ customers a year that had a crack (30 per year total) and if they did I'd be interested in how the vehicle is really driven.

Now, just because there is more likeley less than a .1% failure rate, and those failures are rooted in misuse of the vehicle that should not stop any shop from making a product that adds strength and structural margin. I think it's great

Towing on pavement at just over 50% of rated tow and load capacity is not "misuse".

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Now, just because there is more likeley less than a .1% failure rate, and those failures are rooted in misuse of the vehicle that should not stop any shop from making a product that adds strength and structural margin. I think it's great

So, strengthen it so they can continue to abuse or misuse it. ;-)

My bet is that these aren't just towing things, these aren't just going off-roading like Jeep intends.

 

[piroman683]

Towing on pavement at just over 50% of rated tow and load capacity is not "misuse".

I should have been more clear, I suspect the .1% of failures that happen are from misuse, and NOT from towing within the limits of the vehicle

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I brought up jumping as an example of abuse that has not resulted in a cracked frame. I choose to jump my truck, I dont expect others to share in the same thrills I do

And you fully understand the risks - and know you are using it in ways not originally designed for.
That's totally different.
I'm ok with all of that - but i'd sure not complain about the frame design or talk of "big numbers of frame problems" and that sort of thing. You buy a wrench and use it as a hammer, you - meaning you - won't complain.
But others seem to think that wrench should also function as a hammer then talk of wow, there's a lot of these happening...............
If used as marketed it won't happen.
If used to tow following all proper towing rules, you'll never bust a JT frame. It's just not going to happen while towing even near the maximum numbers.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Towing on pavement at just over 50% of rated tow and load capacity is not "misuse".

Correct, it's not - but that's definitely not what's busting or bending frames.

There's many thousands of people like me who use these to tow boats, campers, car and toy haulers, heck, even other Jeeps on trailers, and they won't have frame problems.

The problem is that most of the time when someone has a problem like this - you never ever get the whole story from them. it's always "I was only towing a 1,000 pound utility trailer on a flat road".
You don't have the whole story - you see videos and hear reports about frame problems - but what's the REST of the story? The truth?

 

[piroman683]

Correct, it's not - but that's definitely not what's busting or bending frames.

There's many thousands of people like me who use these to tow boats, campers, car and toy haulers, heck, even other Jeeps on trailers, and they won't have frame problems.

The problem is that most of the time when someone has a problem like this - you never ever get the whole story from them. it's always "I was only towing a 1,000 pound utility trailer on a flat road".
You don't have the whole story - you see videos and hear reports about frame problems - but what's the REST of the story? The truth?

exactly

also, I wasn't complaining about the frame, I think it's well designed, especially after all I put mine though. (which I did by choice)

 

[Erievon]

Problem or not I'm all about some extra bracing for structural reinforcement.

My useage pattern doesn't justify something that would need welded in, but something I can bolt in, for a bit of insurance would appeal to me.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Parts of these frames are HSS - high strength steel.
Good reading on that stuff out there.

There's a reason they went that route - and don't have massive fish plates and other stuff welded in place - WEIGHT.
And for use as sold/marketed, there's just no reason for it.

If you want to push the limits, then yeah, you'll take the risks or make some mods.
Anyone who uses a car or truck for purposes other than originally intended modifies.
It's just what you do.

 

[Dakarra]

Correct, it's not - but that's definitely not what's busting or bending frames.

There's many thousands of people like me who use these to tow boats, campers, car and toy haulers, heck, even other Jeeps on trailers, and they won't have frame problems.

The problem is that most of the time when someone has a problem like this - you never ever get the whole story from them. it's always "I was only towing a 1,000 pound utility trailer on a flat road".
You don't have the whole story - you see videos and hear reports about frame problems - but what's the REST of the story? The truth?

Fair enough - and here is my response:
1) I saw the video from TrailRecon and it alarmed me.
2) I performed the manual "finger" test described and felt something that wasn't right.
3) I had it checked by a professional, certified shop, who determined it was "out of true".
4) that same shop and two others are all reporting this failure. That isn't ME saying it. That is them.
6) I was categorically NOT overloading or abusing/misusing my JT. I am a bit embarrassed to admit that I have only ever shifted in the transfer case twice in three years.
5) There isn't some hidden use that I am not admitting to - I have no idea how other people drive there's. Some would say I have babied my JT EXCEPT for extensive towing within spec - and I had a failure.
Sheesh, talk about shooting the messenger.....

 

[Rusty PW]

Here are older threads on bent frames.

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/bent-frame-part-deux.52047/

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...trailer-why-do-you-think-this-happened.28766/

Here's the video that goes with one of them.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Fair enough - and here is my response:
1) I saw the video from TrailRecon and it alarmed me.
2) I performed the manual "finger" test described and felt something that wasn't right.
3) I had it checked by a professional, certified shop, who determined it was "out of true".
4) that same shop and two others are all reporting this failure. That isn't ME saying it. That is them.
6) I was categorically NOT overloading or abusing/misusing my JT. I am a bit embarrassed to admit that I have only ever shifted in the transfer case twice in three years.
5) There isn't some hidden use that I am not admitting to - I have no idea how other people drive there's. Some would say I have babied my JT EXCEPT for extensive towing within spec - and I had a failure.
Sheesh, talk about shooting the messenger.....

You can't use a "finger test" as there are specific dimples and crush points in the frame.
You can't bend a frame by driving and towing reasonably.

"professional certified shop" means nothing to me. I know non-certified people who will put those with papers on the wall to shame.
Out of true - in what way?
They have the factory specs and measured according to the factory, or use their own methods.
Your fingers aren't good ways to detect such things unless very trained and know exactly where a frame should and should not have "wrinkles" from forming of the steel in the big presses. When you bend and form steel, there's going to be wrinkles. there are also some placed there on purpose for allowing the frame to crush in the correct spots, and not where they don't want it to.
Those crush areas are the weak spots - on purpose
Driving and towing, especially using proper tow methods, will not bend a frame. It's just not going to happen. And 3,000 pounds of trailer with only 300 pounds of tongue weight? Heck, if that would bend it then some JT owners standing on the bumper will bend it!
Don't jump on your rear bumper guys, you'll bend the frame.
Towing won't bend a frame - it's a straight pull, a ROLLING load. the only load on the frame really is the tongue weight.

Sponsored