Clayton Springs On Bricks/Cobblestones

[Lunentucker]

Found it - this is why springs that are too stiff are a bad thing.............unless you are racing.

Opens in new private window, because I don't want that algorithm

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[Free2roam]

Almost every person on this Board that complains about "ride" after changing springs wants to know what shock to use to soften the ride back up.

I explained exactly how and why that is NOT possible. You want to get hooked on semantics and muddy the information I am giving.

You can NOT put on a stiffer spring and soften it up with a shock. You CAN put on soft springs and stiffen them up with shocks.

I'm not looking to soften the ride on my Clayton Overland lift with fox smooth bore 2.0.
I want to be able to control the springs with the shock. Better or more tuneable shock is what I'm after. I imagine I don't have enough weight on the front end to keep the front end from feeling like it's hoping around when I hit a bridge or overpass expansion joint.
Any insight would be appreciated.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I imagine I don't have enough weight on the front end to keep the front end from feeling like it's hoping around when I hit a bridge or overpass expansion joint.

Higher spring rate will transfer more of the jolt to the chassis pushing it up rather than compressing.......

 

[tampahoosier]

Your shocks don’t have enough travel and probably still need revalved, but your springs ride like garbage? How do you conclude this?

Have you ever rode in a Jeep with no shocks? Serious question.

Let’s all make this easier on ourselves and you get around to asking whatever stupid question you really want to ask, or make your statement. What do you REALLY want to say/ask? After that, I can provide you with a meaningful response that shows I’m not dumb and I know what the f@$k I’m talking about when I say the Clayton springs are stiff as f$&k!

 

[tampahoosier]

Almost every person on this Board that complains about "ride" after changing springs wants to know what shock to use to soften the ride back up.

I explained exactly how and why that is NOT possible. You want to get hooked on semantics and muddy the information I am giving.

You can NOT put on a stiffer spring and soften it up with a shock. You CAN put on soft springs and stiffen them up with shocks.

Ding ding ding! Well spoken sir!

Your shocks don’t have enough travel and probably still need revalved, but your springs ride like garbage? How do you conclude this?

Have you ever rode in a Jeep with no shocks? Serious question.

And no I haven’t ridden a coil sprung jeep without shocks. That’s a stupid question. I’ve never been in an emergency situation that would warrant it. I never would otherwise, it’s just plain stupid, why would I risk driving a vehicle and unseating a coil? Injuring myself, others, or damaging my ride. Stupid question bro. I know what a stiff coil vs a soft coil feels like and how they affect a ride. I know the purpose of a shock and a coil.

 

[Free2roam]

Higher spring rate will transfer more of the jolt to the chassis pushing it up rather than compressing.......

I get that but will a probably valved shock help that bouncing effect?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I get that but will a probably valved shock help that bouncing effect?

If the spring rate is too high for the weight of the vehicle then a shock won't prevent the truck from being jounced up by the stiff spring. The shock will prevent rebound types of bouncing.

A spring with a high rate for the weight will be like a tire that's over-inflated for the weight it's carrying. The tire is in effect a spring so you can sort of look at it that way.

 

[Free2roam]

If the spring rate is too high for the weight of the vehicle then a shock won't prevent the truck from being jounced up by the stiff spring. The shock will prevent rebound types of bouncing.

A spring with a high rate for the weight will be like a tire that's over-inflated for the weight it's carrying. The tire is in effect a spring so you can sort of look at it that way.

I've got to imagine that compression is adjustable as well.

 

[tampahoosier]

I get that but will a probably valved shock help that bouncing effect?

Yes but no. A properly valved shock might reduce it a bit more depending on many variables (like how stiff the spring is) but won’t minimize it. And all you’re doing is temporarily masking the issue. The shock will overheat, then fade, then the ride will be even worse because now you have a shock not functioning at all.

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

Let’s all make this easier on ourselves and you get around to asking whatever stupid question you really want to ask, or make your statement. What do you REALLY want to say/ask? After that, I can provide you with a meaningful response that shows I’m not dumb and I know what the f@$k I’m talking about when I say the Clayton springs are stiff as f$&k!

Ding ding ding! Well spoken sir!

And no I haven’t ridden a coil sprung jeep without shocks. That’s a stupid question. I’ve never been in an emergency situation that would warrant it. I never would otherwise, it’s just plain stupid, why would I risk driving a vehicle and unseating a coil? Injuring myself, others, or damaging my ride. Stupid question bro. I know what a stiff coil vs a soft coil feels like and how they affect a ride. I know the purpose of a shock and a coil.

I already asked the stupid question and you answered.

If this is supposed to be a meaningful discussion, why don't we use coil rates instead of saying stiff?

 

[tampahoosier]

I already asked the stupid question and you answered.

If this is supposed to be a meaningful discussion, why don't we use coil rates instead of saying stiff?

I call your BS. Don’t play victim. A “meaningful” conversation would not have included your stupid comments. “Meaningful” would have been: “I noticed you said the Clayton springs are stiff and so you’re moving to the RK springs… Do you by chance have the spring rates for comparison?”
See what I did there? Meaningful!

Note: I didn’t even mention that the Fox DSCs, like the Falcons, are digressive valving. All you have is essentially a bleed tune, not a true bypass like the Bilstein 8100 piggyback bypass shocks (which are used with the RK springs for the Bilstein shock tune). So I found your comment about trying to tie travel rate, re-valving and my stiff springs together a bit ironic. You would have been better off asking how many miles on the shocks and depending on mileage suggested they were getting some blow bye, but even then that wouldn’t have mattered much given the other circumstances noted above.

Since you just wanted to have a meaningful conversation:
Rock Krawler
3” Gas spring: 150 lbs/in
3” Diesel spring: 162.5 lbs/in

Clayton
2.5” Gas spring: 188 lbs/in
2.5” Diesel spring: 216 lbs/in

Edit: For shoots and giggles: the Clayton 1.5”/2.5” general use spring is 180 lbs/in

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

I call your BS. Don’t play victim. A “meaningful” conversation would not have included your stupid comments. “Meaningful” would have been: “I noticed you said the Clayton springs are stiff and so you’re moving to the RK springs… Do you by chance have the spring rates for comparison?”
See what I did there? Meaningful!

Note: I didn’t even mention that the Fox DSCs, like the Falcons, are digressive valving. All you have is essentially a bleed tune, not a true bypass like the Bilstein 8100 piggyback bypass shocks (which are used with the RK springs for the Bilstein shock tune). So I found your comment about trying to tie travel rate, re-valving and my stiff springs together a bit ironic. You would have been better off asking how many miles on the shocks and depending on mileage suggested they were getting some blow bye, but even then that wouldn’t have mattered much given the other circumstances noted above.

Since you just wanted to have a meaningful conversation:
Rock Krawler
3” Gas spring: 150 lbs/in
3” Diesel spring: 162.5 lbs/in

Clayton
2.5” Gas spring: 188 lbs/in
2.5” Diesel spring: 216 lbs/in

Edit: For shoots and giggles: the Clayton 1.5”/2.5” general use spring is 180 lbs/in

You can answer the following questions if you wish, but if I did not ask in the manner you desire, feel free to ignore.

Those are front spring rates I assume?

And what is a Clayton 1.5"/2.5" general use spring?

 

[tampahoosier]

Yes

You can answer the following questions if you wish, but if I did not ask in the manner you desire, feel free to ignore.

Those are front spring rates I assume?

And what is a Clayton 1.5"/2.5" general use spring?

Yes front spring rates.

Dunno what the 1.5/2.5” spring is quite frankly. They’ve got it advertised for everything from JK to JL TO JT and 1.5” or 2.5”. Clayton for ya, repurposed more than specifically created for each application. More about giving ride height then they are about giving ride height properly developed for a specific platform.
https://www.claytonoffroad.com/prod...18-jk-jl-jeep-gladiator-15-front-coil-springs

You want to be more mind boggled, look at the standard 2.5” and the 3.5”. Both are same height. All they did was stiffen the first spring rate by 31 lbs/in. So taller by just going stiffer ride.

 

[dayusmc]

I don't off road at all. Originally I put Clayton springs in my Gladiator. They rode HORRIBLE, I ended up taking them out and put Mopar 2" lift springs in. They ride so much better on the street than the Claytons....

I should have added more detail here.

I have a stock Mojave with Rubicon steel front bumper and skid plate. I have Fox 2.5 adjustable Elite shocks.

Without extra weight, Clayton springs were way to stiff.

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

Yes

Yes front spring rates.

Dunno what the 1.5/2.5” spring is quite frankly. They’ve got it advertised for everything from JK to JL TO JT and 1.5” or 2.5”. Clayton for ya, repurposed more than specifically created for each application. More about giving ride height then they are about giving ride height properly developed for a specific platform.
https://www.claytonoffroad.com/prod...18-jk-jl-jeep-gladiator-15-front-coil-springs

You want to be more mind boggled, look at the standard 2.5” and the 3.5”. Both are same height. All they did was stiffen the first spring rate by 31 lbs/in. So taller by just going stiffer ride.

Ok, so the 1.5"/2.5" is the 1.5" JT front spring.

I don't think it's bad practice to use the same spring for different applications. OME has always done this and their springs have a pretty good reputation.

I'm seeing the 3.5" spring has a 1" longer free length than the 2.5" and they have the same 188 lbs/in rate.

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