My absolute nightmare Jeep Gladiator Experience over the last 20 months

[Deleted member 57233]

Yeah but it seems to me that all this environmental hype that appears to have been the downfall of v8's is bollocks.

I also read that mercedes are quite likely to bring back the v8's into some of their AMG stuff because of a large drop in sales due to not using it in recent vehicle production.

Id suggest if stellantis wish to stop losing money they need to open their eyes and give customers what they want. Big 4wds need v8 engine options i think.

The reason they went away is because they're big, heavy, complicated, and expensive. It never had anything to do with the environment. There is a reason F1 and other motor sport keeps reducing the number of cylinders, there is just no need for 8 cylinders making 400hp when you can get 500hp out of a 1.8L turbo 4 cylinder.

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[adamjedgar]

The reason they went away is because they're big, heavy, complicated, and expensive. It never had anything to do with the environment. There is a reason F1 and other motor sport keeps reducing the number of cylinders, there is just no need for 8 cylinders making 400hp when you can get 500hp out of a 1.8L turbo 4 cylinder.

Firstly,
The v8 hemis are less complex than the pentastar. Its using a pushrod platform that has been around for decades and is well proven.

Second, have you ever tried towing 4.5 ton with a 1.8 litre engine? Horespower has nothing to do with towing capacity... engine torque has everything to do with it. Id rather tow at 2000rpm up hills than at 5000rpm any day.

Id suggest you really need to actually go do a towing test with a hemi vs the pentastar...theres no comparison to be honest. The pentastar is useless for towing (ive got a RAM 1500 with 5.7 and the Jeep with Pentastar, so i have directly compared the two of them)...in fact, when on the open road, unless its pretty much dead flat at low speeds, the pentastar is terrible by comparison. Even fuel economy towing...thepentastar is really bad.

Also, At 110km/hr (70mph) its working really hard to move the Gladiator along at speed on the hwy. Sure aerodynamics in the jeep are terrible, but the complete absence of engine torque are the issue (proven by the v8 79 series landcruiser which is also an aerodynamic brick). If i could combine that wonderful toyota 4.5litre v8 diesel with a gladiator, id be a very happy camper.(my wife owns a 200 series with the twin turbo v8..so i know the engine performance well)

The 200 series doesnt quite have the getup and gothat the 5.7litre hemi does, but both are way superior to the smaller v6 in every way. The 200 is the most economical as one would expect from a turbo diesel.

 

[Stan H]

Firstly,
The v8 hemis are less complex than the pentastar. Its using a pushrod platform that has been around for decades and is well proven.

Second, have you ever tried towing 4.5 ton with a 1.8 litre engine? Horespower has nothing to do with towing capacity... engine torque has everything to do with it. Id rather tow at 2000rpm up hills than at 5000rpm any day.

Id suggest you really need to actually go do a towing test with a hemi vs the pentastar...theres no comparison to be honest. The pentastar is useless for towing (ive got a RAM 1500 with 5.7 and the Jeep with Pentastar, so i have directly compared the two of them)...in fact, when on the open road, unless its pretty much dead flat at low speeds, the pentastar is terrible by comparison. Even fuel economy towing...thepentastar is really bad.

Also, At 110km/hr (70mph) its working really hard to move the Gladiator along at speed on the hwy. Sure aerodynamics in the jeep are terrible, but the complete absence of engine torque are the issue (proven by the v8 79 series landcruiser which is also an aerodynamic brick). If i could combine that wonderful toyota 4.5litre v8 diesel with a gladiator, id be a very happy camper.(my wife owns a 200 series with the twin turbo v8..so i know the engine performance well)

The 200 series doesnt quite have the getup and gothat the 5.7litre hemi does, but both are way superior to the smaller v6 in every way. The 200 is the most economical as one would expect from a turbo diesel.

How fast do ypu need to go ? When I bought my Jeep the commercials were showing fording 8 inches of water climbing a trail and camping. By God ya know what they was spot on it does all that perfectly . Exactly what I need . Go mash that skinny peddle in the hemi 5.7 all ya want . It will never ever ever ever go where my 21Rubicon will. I have ascended 20degree slopes 3/4 of a mile long in loose dirt and rock and mixed vegetation . And leaves. Bring in that Hemi my light nimble 3.6L will eat it for lunch off road any day. Cheers

 

[Rusty PW]

How fast do ypu need to go ? When I bought my Jeep the commercials were showing fording 8 inches of water climbing a trail and camping. By God ya know what they was spot on it does all that perfectly . Exactly what I need . Go mash that skinny peddle in the hemi 5.7 all ya want . It will never ever ever ever go where my 21Rubicon will. I have ascended 20degree slopes 3/4 of a mile long in loose dirt and rock and mixed vegetation . And leaves. Bring in that Hemi my light nimble 3.6L will eat it for lunch off road any day. Cheers

You never drove a Power Wagon off road.

 

[Deleted member 57233]

Firstly,
The v8 hemis are less complex than the pentastar. Its using a pushrod platform that has been around for decades and is well proven.

Second, have you ever tried towing 4.5 ton with a 1.8 litre engine? Horespower has nothing to do with towing capacity... engine torque has everything to do with it. Id rather tow at 2000rpm up hills than at 5000rpm any day.

Id suggest you really need to actually go do a towing test with a hemi vs the pentastar...theres no comparison to be honest. The pentastar is useless for towing (ive got a RAM 1500 with 5.7 and the Jeep with Pentastar, so i have directly compared the two of them)...in fact, when on the open road, unless its pretty much dead flat at low speeds, the pentastar is terrible by comparison. Even fuel economy towing...thepentastar is really bad.

Also, At 110km/hr (70mph) its working really hard to move the Gladiator along at speed on the hwy. Sure aerodynamics in the jeep are terrible, but the complete absence of engine torque are the issue (proven by the v8 79 series landcruiser which is also an aerodynamic brick). If i could combine that wonderful toyota 4.5litre v8 diesel with a gladiator, id be a very happy camper.(my wife owns a 200 series with the twin turbo v8..so i know the engine performance well)

The 200 series doesnt quite have the getup and gothat the 5.7litre hemi does, but both are way superior to the smaller v6 in every way. The 200 is the most economical as one would expect from a turbo diesel.

I wouldn't buy a midsize pickup if I wanted to tow things, and I wouldn't buy a solid axle brick if I wanted to go fast

 

[Stan H]

You never drove a Power Wagon off road.

A Dodge pickup up I have for sure

 

[adamjedgar]

How fast do ypu need to go ? When I bought my Jeep the commercials were showing fording 8 inches of water climbing a trail and camping. By God ya know what they was spot on it does all that perfectly . Exactly what I need . Go mash that skinny peddle in the hemi 5.7 all ya want . It will never ever ever ever go where my 21Rubicon will. I have ascended 20degree slopes 3/4 of a mile long in loose dirt and rock and mixed vegetation . And leaves. Bring in that Hemi my light nimble 3.6L will eat it for lunch off road any day. Cheers

Not if the hemi is also in the jeep it wont.

Another issue with the pentastar v6...if you end up in a really decent sticky bog hole, the pentastar hasnt got the torque to get going through it...so perish the thought of coming to a stop in the middle of one. That isnt an issue with the v8 (or a diesel). The pentastar just isnt a good engine for 4wd work in a vehicle like the gladiator. Now if the pentastar were turbo, that would be a whole other story.

You guys are lucky in the US in that at least you have the 3litre v6 diesel option...we cant get that engine in Gladiators in Australia.

 

[Stuntman Mike]

You guys are lucky in the US in that at least you have the 3litre v6 diesel option...we cant get that engine in Gladiators in Australia.

That's gone some times ago.

In Europe, we only got the diesel option and I am very glad about this.

But with the discontinuation of the diesel option the Gladiator is also history in Europe ...

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Its using a pushrod platform that has been around for decades and is well proven.

Extremely inefficient. And these days, you have to run efficiently.
There's a lot of lack of control over a push rod/rocker arm valve train. It's limited in RPM to some extent (unless you go with what the LS has done). You run into valve float at high RPM, it's expensive, heavy and there's a lot more friction involved, meaning the need to remove HEAT. The V8 can't meet our CAFE standards very easily - or even at all (thus the hated and dreaded ESS).

Something proven doesn't mean there isn't something better.

the old magneto and ignitor spark system was well-proven, but we sure don't want that.

 

[Rusty PW]

Extremely inefficient. And these days, you have to run efficiently.
There's a lot of lack of control over a push rod/rocker arm valve train. It's limited in RPM to some extent (unless you go with what the LS has done). You run into valve float at high RPM, it's expensive, heavy and there's a lot more friction involved, meaning the need to remove HEAT. The V8 can't meet our CAFE standards very easily - or even at all (thus the hated and dreaded ESS).

Something proven doesn't mean there isn't something better.

the old magneto and ignitor spark system was well-proven, but we sure don't want that.

You can get valve float with any valve set up. Flat head, push rod, or overhead cam. The only engines that doesn't get valve float is a Ducati or F1.

 

[Stan H]

You can get valve float with any valve set up. Flat head, push rod, or overhead cam. The only engines that doesn't get valve float is a Ducati or F1.

Anything with hydraulic lifters yes, solid lifters will not float but when something goes it goes big. But the shorter travel of the 3.6l against its hydraulic lifters is less prone . I have had mine at 6k quite a few times. Crap once just a couple days ago y'all would be shocked at the way I have driven this Jeep. They are surprisingly solid.

 

[Stan H]

Everyday I got this thing between 4 & 5K everyday

 

[Rusty PW]

Anything with hydraulic lifters yes, solid lifters will not float but when something goes it goes big. But the shorter travel of the 3.6l against its hydraulic lifters is less prone . I have had mine at 6k quite a few times. Crap once just a couple days ago y'all would be shocked at the way I have driven this Jeep. They are surprisingly solid.

Solids will valve float. Valve float is when the valve is not seated when it should be. They also bounce off the seat too.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

You can get valve float with any valve set up. Flat head, push rod, or overhead cam. The only engines that doesn't get valve float is a Ducati or F1.

Yes, but reciprocating mass is more prone to it - you have the weight of a lifter, push rod and rocker arm vs. the weight of only a follower which is lower mass than all of those other parts. Any of them can "float"- but what's more prone to it? Heavier mass.
It's harder to control, heavier, and less efficient - for the requirements forced upon the automakers. We have limited cooling capacity in these body designs. There's a reason it costs big bucks for FCA to do it factory.
So "just stick a hemi in it" isn't that easy for the auto makers (the hemi is really old tech and lives on mostly because of the name, not because it's superior compared to others these days). You are relying on an old chamber design, lower RPM and more cubes to make the power. If I was to convert to a v8, sorry, guys, it likely wouldn't be the 'hemi'.

 

[adamjedgar]

Extremely inefficient

Thats funny because 100%, our RAM 1500 v8 gets consistently better fuel economy than my Gladiator does.

I recently took the RAM on the same trip ive done a nunber of times in the Jeep (Melbourne to Sydney return)

The motorway is 110km/hr speed limit pretty much the entire distance of 900km. The Jeep was averaging around 15 litres per 100km, the RAM a little under 13. Our 200 series landcruiser on the same trip is 12.

The really bjg difference with the Jeep though is driveability...that pentatstar engine is really working hard all the time. Even on flat road, as soon as you want to accelerate, it has to drop back 2 gears...its changging gears all the flaming time on the hwy and that is simply because it hasnt got any torque...there are no if or buts or maybes about it...efficiency is irrelevant and the poor fuel economy proves my point.

I have other financial comittments at present, however, one thing is certain...if/when i have a spare $20-30k (aud), im going to either supercharge the Pentastar or do a 5.7 hemi v8 swap (supercharging is probably the most practicable option given it doesnt require rewiring and fabrication etc)


Oh also,.my new Pentastar engine still has the same predetonation issues the original engine had. im on the third engine now and am thinking its a software/tuning problem in the PCM.

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