I vote for a small block Chevrolet.

[Zachanadandy]

Bite me.

Facts>feelings and yes he was talking about 70s era v8s. I know it's hard to admit when you're wrong before puberty but some of us are adults here.

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[agoldxj]

6.6 gas motor likes oil, GM says using 3 qts between changes is normal. We see it weekly.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

There's not enough interest in a V8 gladiator.

Not enough to cover all of the expenses involved. People think - hey, it will fit, why don't they just do it? Yeah, right - and there goes CAFE numbers, up go the fines, the engineering and forms involved, the EPA has to have more forms related to every aspect of the change - did you move the cooling fan? Where to? What's the air flow under various conditions? did it require any changes to the HVAC system? If so, document the changes (due to air flow in, around and through the truck), SAE testing for payload and towing capacities, suspension changes - there's clearances involved between engine and suspension.
Yes, there's 'some demand' and thus the aftermarket - but out of the total numbers sold - how many are being converted? Enough to make it worthwhile to FCA -and fit in with their needs for keeping with regulations and CAFE numbers and so on?
The after-market is but a drop in the bucket vs. total numbers sold.
Look at the price of the V8 Wrangler............. ouch.

 

[Janster]

The future is electric.

Oh hell no….. Not in my lifetime.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The 77 305 made half the hp you recall, as that was the height of smog era low compression, tiny cam, garbage. "305.2 cui, 108 kW / 147 PS / 145 hp (SAE net) of power, 332 Nm / 245 lb-ft of torque"
Less than .5hp/cubic inch. Hot garbage and makes the pentastar feel like a powerhouse by comparison. That 3500lb car took 10.5 seconds to get to 60. The gladiator does it in 7 seconds at 2k lbs heavier. As with most people, nostalgia seems to sugar coat the reality of just how much better modern powertrains are. Hell the 90s era fox body with the 5.0L was slower to 60 than a stock JLU now... and that's not even talking the 392.

You know that the internet hates logic and factual numbers.
People comparing a heavy full-framed truck to a half-framed light-weight car.

Having hung out a few weekends at a dragstrip, it's really a slap in the face to see a stock modern vehicle with a smaller engine wipe out a mild build from the 70s or 80s.

 

[Zachanadandy]

Not enough to cover all of the expenses involved. People think - hey, it will fit, why don't they just do it? Yeah, right - and there goes CAFE numbers, up go the fines, the engineering and forms involved, the EPA has to have more forms related to every aspect of the change - did you move the cooling fan? Where to? What's the air flow under various conditions? did it require any changes to the HVAC system? If so, document the changes (due to air flow in, around and through the truck), SAE testing for payload and towing capacities, suspension changes - there's clearances involved between engine and suspension.
Yes, there's 'some demand' and thus the aftermarket - but out of the total numbers sold - how many are being converted? Enough to make it worthwhile to FCA -and fit in with their needs for keeping with regulations and CAFE numbers and so on?
The after-market is but a drop in the bucket vs. total numbers sold.
Look at the price of the V8 Wrangler............. ouch.

The 5.7L take rate when offered in everything from grand cherokee's to chargers says it's far from a drop in the bucket. The 392 in the wranglers is a bad example as it was only available in top trim rubicons with an astronomical price increase. Slap the 5.7L in the JT with ease as it's no different than the 392 and they already figured out mounts, cooling, etc and offer it across all trims with a reasonable price increase of $4-6k and it would be the number 1 option guaranteed. Nobody drives the 3.6L and 5.7L back to back be it a Challenger or a truck and says they like the 3.6L more period.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Slap the 5.7L in the JT with ease as it's no different than the 392 and they already figured out mounts, cooling, etc and offer it across all trims with a reasonable price increase of $4-6k and it would be the number 1 option guaranteed.

But they still have to get through payload and towing tests - and the Wranglers aren't rated as highly as say, a Sport S with max tow. So you have cooling figured in a wrangler, not doing the duties of a truck with payload and towing, but you run into trouble when you put that engine into a JT.
they still have to go through all of the EPA certifications - the Wrangler doesn't count as it's a different body, weight and size over-all. It has to be done with JT specifically.
They have the parts - but not the certifications for payload and towing of the JT, nor the EPA certifications and so on. They have to crash test it with that engine as well.
What's the tow and payload rating of a JLU with the 5.7?

 

[Zachanadandy]

But they still have to get through payload and towing tests - and the Wranglers aren't rated as highly as say, a Sport S with max tow. So you have cooling figured in a wrangler, not doing the duties of a truck with payload and towing, but you run into trouble when you put that engine into a JT.
they still have to go through all of the EPA certifications - the Wrangler doesn't count as it's a different body, weight and size over-all. It has to be done with JT specifically.
They have the parts - but not the certifications for payload and towing of the JT, nor the EPA certifications and so on. They have to crash test it with that engine as well.
What's the tow and payload rating of a JLU with the 5.7?

Of course they have to do certifications and testing... but that's the case with any engine. Are they supposed to only offer the 3.6L forever because of that? They've already announced the 4xe JT is coming which has all those same challenges.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Of course they have to do certifications and testing... but that's the case with any engine. Are they supposed to only offer the 3.6L forever because of that? They've already announced the 4xe JT is coming which has all those same challenges.

I suspect the 3.6 will be for the life of the gasser JT - they may offer something else, but I'm not holding my breath.
the 4xe is a different animal and puts them squarely in the path of their own vows to offer "electric options" and with the EPA mandates.
If the 4xe was offered in the JT today, and had the same payload and towing ratings as I've got now, AND used the newer ZF higher HP and torque transmission - I'd have gone with that.

 

[Zachanadandy]

I suspect the 3.6 will be for the life of the gasser JT - they may offer something else, but I'm not holding my breath.
the 4xe is a different animal and puts them squarely in the path of their own vows to offer "electric options" and with the EPA mandates.
If the 4xe was offered in the JT today, and had the same payload and towing ratings as I've got now, AND used the newer ZF higher HP and torque transmission - I'd have gone with that.

In my experience in the ram compared to my buddies with the 3.6L payload was similar, towing was improved, and real world mpg was better. I've heard a lot of talk of reduced epa/Cafe regulations being possible with the current administration and the 5.7L would be about the only change that would have me seriously considering trading in the JT.

 

[Deleted member 57233]

Oh hell no….. Not in my lifetime.

Sorry about the terminal diagnosis, how long do you have left?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

In my experience in the ram compared to my buddies with the 3.6L payload was similar, towing was improved, and real world mpg was better. I've heard a lot of talk of reduced epa/Cafe regulations being possible with the current administration and the 5.7L would be about the only change that would have me seriously considering trading in the JT.

Local sales people told me "the hemi guy is back" at FCA.......... so who knows?! The guy was a Ram truck sales person, not much on the Jeep side, but he implied there could be some changes as that guy at the top liked the hemi.
I guess we'll know more if the fat lady sings on this, otherwise, I suppose we could speculate and toss out this and that until the JT is long gone.

 

[Deleted member 57233]

I've heard a lot of talk of reduced epa/Cafe regulations being possible with the current administration

Just to be undone by the next administration. There is no way automakers are going make changes based on anything this administration does because they will just be changed back before the new vehicles can even start production.

It's the same reason EVs are coming whether you like it or not, they have invested billions in setting up the production, can't turn back now.

 

[Zachanadandy]

Just to be undone by the next administration. There is no way automakers are going make changes based on anything this administration does because they will just be changed back before the new vehicles can even start production.

It's the same reason EVs are coming whether you like it or not, they have invested billions in setting up the production, can't turn back now.

They literally fired hemi production back up...and moved it back to the US from Mexico but you're telling me they won't make changes based on this administration?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

They literally fired hemi production back up...and moved it back to the US from Mexico but you're telling me they won't make changes based on this administration?

Question for you -
When was production moved back to the US?
I ask because - Gladiator 3.6 engines starting in 2023 for the 2024 model year, well before any "election" were made in the US.
So it was really a decision either made in the same vein as the Simpsons - they knew something, or, there were other reasons.
I tracked multiple window stickers for the 2024 Gladiator while I was looking around a year or more ago and they all had the engine as coming from the USA, no longer Mexico.
The move was made in 2023 for the 3.6
But maybe someone at FCA was watching the Simpsons and saw some signs.

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