Towing capacity guesstimator after lift and 37" tires?

[ShadowsPapa]

The desert has is advantages for sure. 75mph died limits where the highway patrol doesn't bat an eye if you've got the cruise control set at 85. Public lands, dirt roads, and trails as far as the eye can see, affordable remote property.

Would LOVE to visit that area sometime. Sounds beautiful.

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[Zachanadandy]

Would LOVE to visit that area sometime. Sounds beautiful.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

A whole different world for sure. Nothing even close, here. Even in the most hilly spots, there's traffic, people, and roads. The flats (few as there are) are a cross-hatch of roads every mile, both directions.
There's really not much of a place to "get away" here.

 

[Stan H]

affordable remote proper

DM me as to where to look I am interested in something like that.

 

[Sandman 4x4]

True, but like everything else in the world there's also a ton of safety margin built into ratings in the 1st place. Will the commercial 325lb ladder fail at 326lbs? Of course not. I've personally hung thousands of 100+ pound light fixture and ceiling fans off ladders over the years. I'm 275lbs. Plus tools. That 325lb ladder doesn't fail at 400+ lbs. It's far harder to roll a gladiator than people think. I drift this thing on 37s at freeway speeds in the dirt regularly. I'm not telling anyone to do what I do but I'm not afraid to push the limits in life. Is the cog higher? Of course. Is it going to tip over in an emergency maneuver? Not in my experience. I get the argument, if you accept the initial rating was 100% at the limit of what the truck can do. Meanwhile our 01 grand cherokee was rated at 5500lbs and a far worse tow rig than the mojave on stock form. Less power, much shorter wheelbase, aluminum center section axles that are far weaker than those under the JT, worse brakes, worse gearing, far inferior transmission, and so on. Can you increase the tire rating officially? Not really. If you swap 1 ton axles with deeper gears and you upgrade the cooling system you technically lost towing capacity as the axles are much heavier. Guess which rig I'd rather tow at or above the rating in? Safer as it's got a lower cog as the added weight is low and unsprung, the brakes are bigger, etc. Better for towing a heavy trailer with the deeper gearing. Better cooling so you don't have to worry about overheating. Be safe, properly load your trailer, increase following distances, and do what you are comfortable with.

All semi valid points, till you are unfortunately involved in an accident, whether the primary reason or not, once an opposing lawyer figures out how you are either 5, or 5,000 lbs overweight, especially if they find any place you have asked for advice about the matter, you can be found criminally negligent and responsible for all damages, but worse physical harm. There is NOTHING any owner can do to raise a tow rating, that’s easily found by looking at the rating sticker in the door jamb, or VIN #. But there’s a lot an owner can do to lower the rating.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

All semi valid points, till you are unfortunately involved in an accident, whether the primary reason or not, once an opposing lawyer figures out how you are either 5, or 5,000 lbs overweight, especially if they find any place you have asked for advice about the matter, you can be found criminally negligent and responsible for all damages, but worse physical harm. There is NOTHING any owner can do to raise a tow rating, that’s easily found by looking at the rating sticker in the door jamb, or VIN #. But there’s a lot an owner can do to lower the rating.

That's what the trooper warned me about - civil court.

 

[Zachanadandy]

All semi valid points, till you are unfortunately involved in an accident, whether the primary reason or not, once an opposing lawyer figures out how you are either 5, or 5,000 lbs overweight, especially if they find any place you have asked for advice about the matter, you can be found criminally negligent and responsible for all damages, but worse physical harm. There is NOTHING any owner can do to raise a tow rating, that’s easily found by looking at the rating sticker in the door jamb, or VIN #. But there’s a lot an owner can do to lower the rating.

Have you looked at the door jamb sticker on the gladiator? No tow rating or gcwr to even try to extrapolate from. Everyone parrots the sane lawyer gear... and can't site 1 case. Again nobody is weighing your rig to see if you were a few hundred pounds over period.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Nobody has to weigh it after an accident. I've watched IHP troopers get information about the vehicles from the info gathered at accident scenes. Their computer programs are amazing. They can tell a vehicle's trajectory, speed, weight and so on at any given point in an accident. They have stats gathered at hundreds of thousands of accidents as well as the computer smarts to tell you "at point A, vehicle was traveling xx mph, at point B it was yy mph" and more - as well as what the vehicle's weight was without cheating and looking it up. Physics.
Very impressive stuff they have even in Iowa.
If it wasn't a thing, the Sgt. I spoke with would have never warned about civil cases.
No, they aren't going to pull over a rig and weigh it, not non-commercial rigs.
You can get by with a lot of shit that isn't safe - until that one time when someone pulls out in front of you, or you get cut off or something causes the need for above and beyond maneuvers - and you can't.
You can get by with a lot of deadly crap - and that's really the problem a lot of us have with it - those that get by until that one time they kill someone because of their selfishness, arrogance, "you can't tell me what to do" attitudes.

 

[Zachanadandy]

Nobody has to weigh it after an accident. I've watched IHP troopers get information about the vehicles from the info gathered at accident scenes. Their computer programs are amazing. They can tell a vehicle's trajectory, speed, weight and so on at any given point in an accident. They have stats gathered at hundreds of thousands of accidents as well as the computer smarts to tell you "at point A, vehicle was traveling xx mph, at point B it was yy mph" and more - as well as what the vehicle's weight was without cheating and looking it up. Physics.
Very impressive stuff they have even in Iowa.
If it wasn't a thing, the Sgt. I spoke with would have never warned about civil cases.
No, they aren't going to pull over a rig and weigh it, not non-commercial rigs.
You can get by with a lot of shit that isn't safe - until that one time when someone pulls out in front of you, or you get cut off or something causes the need for above and beyond maneuvers - and you can't.
You can get by with a lot of deadly crap - and that's really the problem a lot of us have with it - those that get by until that one time they kill someone because of their selfishness, arrogance, "you can't tell me what to do" attitudes.

If you pull out in front of someone traveling at speed and an extra few hundred pounds makes the difference between a collision and a fatality I can't picture that scenario. Sure a couple hundred pounds might increase the stopping distance by a few feet but if that's the cause of a fatality the person who pulled out into traffic is still at fault. We are acting like we're towing an extra 10k pounds and doubling the stopping distance and that's just not even on the same planet as the discuuson. Don't pull out in front of people or cut them off and just hope for the best? Fat doesn't change period.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Sure a couple hundred pounds might increase the stopping distance by a few feet but if that's the cause of a fatality the person who pulled out into traffic is still at fault.

Not in all states. Even the person "who didn't cause" the accident can be held partially at fault if for any reason they couldn't or didn't try to avoid it.

 

[Zachanadandy]

Not in all states. Even the person "who didn't cause" the accident can be held partially at fault if for any reason they couldn't or didn't try to avoid it.

But again that's not what we are talking about. I'm not saying don't bother braking when some dumb ass pulls out right in front of you. If a few feet of stopping distance makes the difference in there even being an impact the person who didn't yield is still at fault. We all know that towing even within the capacity increases stopping distance. What you're implying is even that somehow makes the tow vehicle at fault and that's just not reality.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

What you're implying is even that somehow makes the tow vehicle at fault and that's just not reality.

I never once said that.
If you are found to be towing stupid, way over-weight, etc. - you can still be found a percentage at fault.
I am talking comparative negligence or contributory negligence - and that's a very real thing.

Of course, there's the other hand - are those ratings "performance ratings"? Hmmmmm. There's an out right there.
but 1,000 pounds over weight is blowing past the performance rating willingly and knowingly so there's gross negligence? You KNOW it can't stop - but still do it anyway.

 

[Zachanadandy]

I never once said that.
If you are found to be towing stupid, way over-weight, etc. - you can still be found a percentage at fault.
I am talking comparative negligence or contributory negligence - and that's a very real thing.

Of course, there's the other hand - are those ratings "performance ratings"? Hmmmmm. There's an out right there.
but 1,000 pounds over weight is blowing past the performance rating willingly and knowingly so there's gross negligence? You KNOW it can't stop - but still do it anyway.

The max tow has the same brakes as a Mojave, which until recently was rated at 6k pounds vs 7,700. They will both stop 7700lbs the same.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The max tow has the same brakes as a Mojave, which until recently was rated at 6k pounds vs 7,700. They will both stop 7700lbs the same.

You are leaving out the tire weight and size of the max tow vs. Mojave. Tire size increases reduce braking power.
The max tow will stop it better/easier/faster than Mojave - and better than anything lifted with larger tires.

 

[Zachanadandy]

You are leaving out the tire weight and size of the max tow vs. Mojave. Tire size increases reduce braking power.
The max tow will stop it better/easier/faster than Mojave - and better than anything lifted with larger tires.

And yet the mojave got a 1k pound bump in capacity with no improvement in braking or reducing tire size by Stellantis themselves? Almost like the original 6k was underrated by 1k pounds minimum? Is the 7k also under rated? Is the 7,700 of the max tow under rated? Will a gladiator even lifted on 37s stop an 8k pound trailer just fine? I know the answer to that last question with 100% certainty but do what you're comfortable with. On one hand the extra weight of the mojave could be a detriment, but as far as controlling a heavy trailer a heavier tow rig has an advantage.

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