Sunrider owners - MY mess-up, or theirs?

[ShadowsPapa]

You're wrong...it absolutely DID come across that way....and you're also wrong about "...those who can't keep up or follow"

Then I apologize. I misunderstood.

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[rhaney02]

Didn't think it came across that way - wasn't intended. Just with my issues (not Jeep related), I have a life of getting impatient with those who can't keep up or follow.

As far as numbers - I hope that's not a serious comparison.
On the Gladiator side - you have two engines, the vast majority of them the 3.6
The sunrider isn't an extremely common accessory - while everyone has an engine, I bet fewer than 5% have a sunrider.

On the Wrangler side - similar, vast majority will have a 3.6 (or a 2.0 or hemi or whatever), but only a small percentage will have a sunrider.

It's very easy to find threads on the sunrider issue - even youtube videos, talking of it.
I've had people come forward from the JLU and the JT side - "me, too". Ironically, most of those have had the Bestop branded units. (as seen by the decals on the rails and the tag on the side).
Likely because most have bought directly, so most will have their brand.

Jeep won't share their internal communications, and I'm being careful in not posting every single conversation or parts swap Bestop and I have done - trying to not make either one just stop or place blame.
I do not know what measurements Jeep requested of the dealer - only that they made several requests for more measurements.

I have Jeep working on it again - new case number (hoping they don't drop it again) and Bestop has never stopped working on it..

You are deflecting at this point.

As far as numbers for the Sunriders and cam issues that you have contributed to on previous threads, yes I'm asking.

I don't care about Youtube videos or the such, nor will search for them. Give me real numbers and references.... You've just become combative at this point. Settle down dude....

With all of your other posts, you have been able to retain and recite numerous technical specifications for engines, suspensions and tires without fault.

I assure you that you are not making your point or answering my questions with your post.

ETA: I understand your other issues, but if that's the case, you may want to refrain from posting before you think things through.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

You are deflecting at this point.

As far as numbers for the Sunriders and cam issues that you have contributed to on previous threads, yes I'm asking.

I don't care about Youtube videos or the such, nor will search for them. Give me real numbers and references.... You've just become combative at this point. Settle down dude....

With all of your other posts, you have been able to retain and recite numerous technical specifications for engines, suspensions and tires without fault.

I assure you that you are not making your point or answering my questions with your post.

ETA: I understand your other issues, but if that's the case, you may want to refrain from posting before you think things through.

I'll see what I can do - so far, I have no numbers because there are none out there as far as units sold. Bestop and Jeep both sell these, and no one is reporting.
Cams- that was reasonably easy - engine numbers are published. The math not too difficult.

I have a big street rod group at my shop tomorrow - will be prepping for and involved in that.

 

[rhaney02]

I'll see what I can do - so far, I have no numbers because there are none out there as far as units sold. Bestop and Jeep both sell these, and no one is reporting.
Cams- that was reasonably easy - engine numbers are published. The math not too difficult.

I have a big street rod group at my shop tomorrow - will be prepping for and involved in that.

You said there were numerous Sunrider owners that had issues that you have noted. I would like to see the numbers you have compiled.

You are asking for our help and opinions on this subject and are not liking the responses. I'll bet money you have a problem with the specs of your new Jeep.

You have constantly been condescending to people on this site where you have posted in threads "as we have previously discussed" in posts with this thread and others, including the cam problems without giving any more information or data on the subjects.

When you make these posts, are you not remembering where you have previously commented like this or are you just trying to be condescending to newer users with "as we have discussed in previous posts" just to show your superiority and intellect to people who do not spend as much time on this site as you? Please keep that in mind. You're not helping anyone with this content. As smart as you are, you can at least copy and paste information for newer users like you do with threads that are beat to death.

No one spends as much time on this board as you do, nor bothers keeping up with as many posts as some. Either be helpful or be a douche, it's up to you. If it's that hard, you may want to evaluate and think of abstaining from posting before you make your responses. You have real wisdom with many things concerning automotive problems, but please provide it and not be so so abrasive at times.

You brag of how many people that have ignored you on this site. This is a clue....

You are still deflecting my questions, or either what the younger generation are calling "gaslighting".

Stay on task and please keep up and follow.

Maybe you get the condescension now....?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Collision shop called and have all of the technical dimensions and specs for the "cage" or roll bar in the Gladiator.
I'll be taking it over at 9am tomorrow, Wednesday, to try to settle the bit about "is it the truck, or what" once and for all.
They'll pull the entire roof off and check everything about that structure.

This started as "information" gathering. The results -
Some with the Bestop tag have problems, some are perfect
Some with the Jeep tag have problems, some are perfect
Some of each type are in between - good enough, not great, but nothing to bother talking about.

As far as differences - interesting to note that the parts from Bestop for testing - direct from their engineering dept - are exact matches for mine.

Is the reason some Bestop branded fit great while others do not anything to do with the Jeep?
Is the reason some Jeep branded fit great while others do not anything to do with the Jeep?

So far, TWO tops have not fit well.
We can only talk about 2 because the latest was physically damaged AND installed incorrectly.
Since the rear of both sides was shimmed by the dealership for some weird reason, it is expected it's not going to fit well at all.

Both the dealership and Bestop engineering are working on this now.
Dealership said they'd try another top - with my supervision on the installation. (since they have never seen these before!)
My current top has been modified by Bestop engineering and myself so I can't just lift it off my truck and put it on our JLU without some parts swapping. At this point - it's better to wait for some results from the collision center, etc.

 

[Trollboogie]

Thanks for keeping us updated.

 

[Stan H]

Collision shop called and have all of the technical dimensions and specs for the "cage" or roll bar in the Gladiator.
I'll be taking it over at 9am tomorrow, Wednesday, to try to settle the bit about "is it the truck, or what" once and for all.
They'll pull the entire roof off and check everything about that structure.

This started as "information" gathering. The results -
Some with the Bestop tag have problems, some are perfect
Some with the Jeep tag have problems, some are perfect
Some of each type are in between - good enough, not great, but nothing to bother talking about.

As far as differences - interesting to note that the parts from Bestop for testing - direct from their engineering dept - are exact matches for mine.

Is the reason some Bestop branded fit great while others do not anything to do with the Jeep?
Is the reason some Jeep branded fit great while others do not anything to do with the Jeep?

So far, TWO tops have not fit well.
We can only talk about 2 because the latest was physically damaged AND installed incorrectly.
Since the rear of both sides was shimmed by the dealership for some weird reason, it is expected it's not going to fit well at all.

Both the dealership and Bestop engineering are working on this now.
Dealership said they'd try another top - with my supervision on the installation. (since they have never seen these before!)
My current top has been modified by Bestop engineering and myself so I can't just lift it off my truck and put it on our JLU without some parts swapping. At this point - it's better to wait for some results from the collision center, etc.

Your whole ordeal is crazy. I would have thrown in the towel a long long time ago my patience with that type stuff isnt even as long as my 37" arm sleeve .

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Your whole ordeal is crazy. I would have thrown in the towel a long long time ago my patience with that type stuff isnt even as long as my 37" arm sleeve .

The idea is that since there are numerous owners of Sunrider with both tags on them with issues that have not been resolved, it appears that mine is being used as research so Bestop can resolve some of the others - that's the hints I've been getting anyway, in discussions with them.
I have supplied them messages and photos from other Bestop Sunrider owners who have fit issues.
Most are the same fit issues, in the same places. Resolve mine, and maybe others can be resolved with simple parts swap.

If mine was the only one, might be different, but then, probably not. Since it's involving a number of others, it's a "I can't stop now" thing as theirs will never be resolved, either.

One reason you don't find more about it is because people have been told "by the internet" - just do this, problem solved". So they do and assume they just have to put up with it. Others try for resolution and were dropped after a few back and forth with Bestop.

There's a lot more to it than can ever be posted in a message or two here.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Your whole ordeal is crazy. I would have thrown in the towel a long long time ago my patience with that type stuff isnt even as long as my 37" arm sleeve .

Seems that someone who says theirs is working perfectly isn't 100% straight on that - they've done the hack that Bestop says to NOT do..............

I found a quote in another post where they talk of the issue they had, used the hack, and called it good.
I talked to Bestop, as have others, and Bestop sent along a photo saying this is the proper fit (see below - the one that's wet), don't tuck that seal, it's not correct.

So much for "my top is perfect.".

Bestop says - THIS is correct- the pictures, anything else is not - They sent this photo of a correctly fitting install, with the Sunrider drip rail parallel to the top of the door. Even their engineer told me that - it should sit parallel and not push down the seals. And that's what they are striving for now - a correct fit.

So if your Sunrider, either MOPAR or Bestop, doesn't fit like these, and the drip rail isn't nearly parallel to the top of the door, it's not a good fit according to their own engineer and customer support.
Please don't tell me you have a perfect fit if you have opted to tuck the seals. You have accepted an incorrect fit and done what Bestop support says not to do, and should not be needed.
If you want to accept that, it's your Jeep. Please, though, don't tell me it's perfect.

Bestop engineering apparently agrees with me.......... they are jumping through crazy hoops to help!

This is correct -

These are how they should fit.

 

[Stan H]

With your patience I believe you could do this job..no problem

 

[Gatorized]

Collision shop called and have all of the technical dimensions and specs for the "cage" or roll bar in the Gladiator.
I'll be taking it over at 9am tomorrow, Wednesday, to try to settle the bit about "is it the truck, or what" once and for all.
They'll pull the entire roof off and check everything about that structure.

This started as "information" gathering. The results -
Some with the Bestop tag have problems, some are perfect
Some with the Jeep tag have problems, some are perfect
Some of each type are in between - good enough, not great, but nothing to bother talking about.

As far as differences - interesting to note that the parts from Bestop for testing - direct from their engineering dept - are exact matches for mine.

Is the reason some Bestop branded fit great while others do not anything to do with the Jeep?
Is the reason some Jeep branded fit great while others do not anything to do with the Jeep?

So far, TWO tops have not fit well.
We can only talk about 2 because the latest was physically damaged AND installed incorrectly.
Since the rear of both sides was shimmed by the dealership for some weird reason, it is expected it's not going to fit well at all.

Both the dealership and Bestop engineering are working on this now
Dealership said they'd try another top - with my supervision on the installation. (since they have never seen these before!)
My current top has been modified by Bestop engineering and myself so I can't just lift it off my truck and put it on our JLU without some parts swapping. At this point - it's better to wait for some results from the collision center, etc.

bring your wife along in her JL and they can try your top on her’s for the comparison everyone is asking for. although you would think they would just pull one off the lot and see how it compares.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

bring your wife along in her JL and they can try your top on her’s for the comparison everyone is asking for. although you would think they would just pull one off the lot and see how it compares.

Mine has been modified - different mounting parts sent to me by Bestop. Doable, but I doubt that shop would do it for free. I have a feeling my sales guy talked them into doing the measuring.

if I had a hand to help lift - I'd try it at home. I'd need to take it off mine, put the original mounts back on it, then get it lifted into hers.

(No chance of her driving hers 40 minutes over to sit around, then 40 minutes back out of her day - and I don't blame her. She's got quilts stacking up to do.)

Best a test done at home if I get someone to help with the process.
I can unbolt mine and prop it up enough to swap out the mounts while it lays on the bars of my truck, then it could be lifted over to her Jeep. Yes, an interesting test, and especially since it's a 2023 so should be no real differences between it and mine.

Luckily I marked every piece swapped out, what the change was, where it goes and so on, with silver sharpie.

Maybe Jerry would be willing to come by and help with that test.

I also want to see their tech drawings - and see just how much tolerance there is in that structure! Tomorrow will be interesting.
I go over, sit for 2 hours while they remove the entire top, then go through the process of checking all measurements of the entire cage. Glad they have free COFFEE of any strength you want. 40 minutes over, sit from 1 to 2 hours, 40 minutes back home. (then 2+ hours on the mower.......)

 

[Gatorized]

Don’t you have a hardtop hoist? Should be able to jury rig a way to lift the Sunrider then swap it to the JL.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Don’t you have a hardtop hoist? Should be able to jury rig a way to lift the Sunrider then swap it to the JL.

I had wondered that.............

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Well, guess what the tolerance is for that roll structure........3 to 5 mm.
Hmmm, took 5 mm on one side and 3 to 4 on the other to make it sit right on mine (but clamping still an issue)

I'm seeing a reason some fit perfect while others, either brand, do not.
Bestop is shooting at a moving target!

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