Sunrider owners - MY mess-up, or theirs?

[Main Line Willys]

@ShadowsPapa is your Jeep within spec?

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[Trollboogie]

Well, guess what the tolerance is for that roll structure........3 to 5 mm.
Hmmm, took 5 mm on one side and 3 to 4 on the other to make it sit right on mine (but clamping still an issue)

I'm seeing a reason some fit perfect while others, either brand, do not.
Bestop is shooting at a moving target!

5mm is not small. That is just under .200 That would make a fairly decent air gap or push really hard on a seal. I would hope that the 5mm is total tolerance.... plus and minus.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

@ShadowsPapa is your Jeep within spec?

They are still measuring.
Edit...
Ok, results. Mine is perfectly true.
They walked me through the process and mine is right where it belongs.
Clarification - the 3 to 5 mm is frame deviation.
More later

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Finally back home.
The guy said he mis-spoke. The FRAME itself is 3 to 5 mm where they have a lot more leeway due to how things bolt in and on.
The roll structure, due to how so many things index off of that is tighter - maybe 2 mm. They measure in an X left to right, and calculate heights, upper right to lower left, upper left to lower right, using door check bolt holes, windshield holes and so on.
Mine is fine. They had a Wrangler at the shop working on it for other stuff (betcha hinges) and they compared mine to that one - the same,
We discussed how things mount and line up, what lines up with what and so on. One interesting thing that came out of discussions is that the factory does not guarantee the tops and freedom panels to not leak in high pressure car washes. If you take it through a car wash and you get drips inside - there's no guarantee against that. Ironically, I've never had a Jeep, Gladiator or otherwise, leak in a car wash and I tend to aim those wands where-ever I want, not avoiding any parts.

After over an hour of them checking things out (I saw the cool tools they use), it checks out fine.
We spent another 15 minutes talking about things - and decided there are so many ways that the sunrider can be flexed, twisted, skewed, bars bowed a tad and how it's made in general, it would be really easy to be out of whack.
We talked about the front clamps - how my right side is raised about 5mm to get it to work perfectly with the seals, yet the right clamping pressure is fine, while the left pulls too hard, over Bestop's 30 pounds of force specification......... why would that be if the freedom panel clamps were equal in force required and the sunrider pull down hard on the left, and pulls up on the Jeep structure there.

After we both went over things on two Jeeps there, and compared to mine, the measurements they took, and how things otherwise line up perfectly, I'm even convinced it's not the truck.

It's a "you had to be there" thing - he wasn't blowing smoke.

 

[Trollboogie]

Well you can rule out the JT now.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Interesting thing to come out of this AM - the guy, who used to manage a Ford dealership collision center before moving to Jeep and has been here a while now, said that the doors on mine fit a lot better than some of them - more even gaps and so on.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Well you can rule out the JT now.

Yeah, so now we wait on Bestop and the dealership -
dealership said they were going to order another since the last one was damaged and I convinced them it was also likely skewed and twisted, not to mention they installed it incorrectly.

 

[jebiruph]

Mine has been modified - different mounting parts sent to me by Bestop. Doable, but I doubt that shop would do it for free. I have a feeling my sales guy talked them into doing the measuring.

if I had a hand to help lift - I'd try it at home. I'd need to take it off mine, put the original mounts back on it, then get it lifted into hers.

(No chance of her driving hers 40 minutes over to sit around, then 40 minutes back out of her day - and I don't blame her. She's got quilts stacking up to do.)

Best a test done at home if I get someone to help with the process.
I can unbolt mine and prop it up enough to swap out the mounts while it lays on the bars of my truck, then it could be lifted over to her Jeep. Yes, an interesting test, and especially since it's a 2023 so should be no real differences between it and mine.

Luckily I marked every piece swapped out, what the change was, where it goes and so on, with silver sharpie.

Maybe Jerry would be willing to come by and help with that test.

I also want to see their tech drawings - and see just how much tolerance there is in that structure! Tomorrow will be interesting.
I go over, sit for 2 hours while they remove the entire top, then go through the process of checking all measurements of the entire cage. Glad they have free COFFEE of any strength you want. 40 minutes over, sit from 1 to 2 hours, 40 minutes back home. (then 2+ hours on the mower.......)

I've been out of town, but am back and can help if you still need it.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I've been out of town, but am back and can help if you still need it.

I was ready to see if you were around, then suddenly after some arguing with the dealer people insisting to them that there was no way in........... god's green earth (to put it more nicely)....... that you could use a dropped, damaged, and improperly installed Sunrider, which through no fault of Bestop, didn't fit correctly, as a test - they said "we'll order another one".

Bestop engineering seems to have something in the works as well.
So for now - I'll put this on "cruise" until I hear from either one or both.
Add to the mix, supposedly FCA customer care is going to be calling me............we'll see.

Next week I have to drive over to Iowa City for neurology appointment to see if the DBS surgery is appropriate and if so, what's next.
I have a feeling that this fall will see me out of commission off and on quite a bit (hole drilled in skull, multiple surgeries).

All that has me thinking that I have to get the snow plow mounting and wiring worked in soon.
May have to rearrange things.

 

[MPMB]

I was ready to see if you were around, then suddenly after some arguing with the dealer people insisting to them that there was no way in........... god's green earth (to put it more nicely)....... that you could use a dropped, damaged, and improperly installed Sunrider, which through no fault of Bestop, didn't fit correctly, as a test - they said "we'll order another one".

Bestop engineering seems to have something in the works as well.
So for now - I'll put this on "cruise" until I hear from either one or both.
Add to the mix, supposedly FCA customer care is going to be calling me............we'll see.

Next week I have to drive over to Iowa City for neurology appointment to see if the DBS surgery is appropriate and if so, what's next.
I have a feeling that this fall will see me out of commission off and on quite a bit (hole drilled in skull, multiple surgeries).

All that has me thinking that I have to get the snow plow mounting and wiring worked in soon.
May have to rearrange things.

Good luck on all fronts.

I took a look at my Sunrider - turns out the tension cable on the side had popped out (that little metal "S" end that needs to be in the hole) of the plastic at the rear. That's how the wind got under the side and blew into the cab. So I stuck it back in the hole. And it came out again. I stuck it back in, pushing it further and making sure it's in there at the correct bent spot. Dropped the top and opened it again. Cable popped out.

<grumble>Maybe the metal flattened out a little, let me bend it more square. Grab some pliers. A little squeeze here, a little <SNAP> here.

Great. Broke the S hook in two. Fan-freaking-tastic.

I threw on a thick piece of weatherstripping on the top of the plastic to help buffer the wind noise. We'll see if it works at 70mph. <heavy sigh>

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Good luck on all fronts.

I took a look at my Sunrider - turns out the tension cable on the side had popped out (that little metal "S" end that needs to be in the hole) of the plastic at the rear. That's how the wind got under the side and blew into the cab. So I stuck it back in the hole. And it came out again. I stuck it back in, pushing it further and making sure it's in there at the correct bent spot. Dropped the top and opened it again. Cable popped out.

<grumble>Maybe the metal flattened out a little, let me bend it more square. Grab some pliers. A little squeeze here, a little <SNAP> here.

Great. Broke the S hook in two. Fan-freaking-tastic.

I threw on a thick piece of weatherstripping on the top of the plastic to help buffer the wind noise. We'll see if it works at 70mph. <heavy sigh>

Sorry, the laugh is not about your problem, but I LOVE that t-rex trying to tread water!

You broke an S-hook? Wow. I can't say I've ever broken any that were under about 3/16" wire size - those can be tough to bend! There should be quite a bit of give to a typical S-hook before it lets go. Ouch.

I have found more information - including my work with Bestop - that leads me to conclude that those who say "these are cheaper because Jeep makes them" and all of that rot - are not correct.
Jeep doesn't make anything related to these. Bestop does. It looks like it's like their other officially approved accessories - they can put their name on it, sell it, and so on, but it's still made by Bestop.

Another thing I found interesting -
At least one person who has touted how well theirs fits and works is not telling you the whole story here. I've dug and found out - no, sorry, they also have problems, but are using an internet "hack" to get by and make it work. It's still a problem fit. So when they say how much they are enjoying their perfectly fitting sunrider - uh, not really the case. No pictures of course as that would negate the text posted. No, their top is also ill-fitting. They are doing what both Jeep and Bestop say to not do to make it work.
So they weren't really being helpful - and were basically leaving out very key information. I found it in earlier posts in other threads. It may not be as bad as mine, but it's not right, either. (by their own admission elsewhere)

Still waiting to hear back from Jeep, dealership and Bestop.

Now for the kicker I really came here to post -
Got an email from Jeep customer support - they said they got a message from the service manager stating that my top had been replaced and my vehicle returned to me. Jeep was asking, or almost implying, that since that message from the dealer, maybe things were ok now. At least how I read it....................right or wrong!
I was NOT happy after receiving that message from Jeep.
NO, it's not right, and NO, they sent me home with a DAMAGED top, worse than any of the others, and do NOT close the case!

First, the date of the message included in the message was the 19th - "please contact the customer within 24 hours". I had a missed call (it was dead when I tried to answer it, as if it was an automated call and no one on the other end actually picked it up from the dialer) but nothing at all within any 24 hours of the 19th

 

[Charles 236]

It was my understanding, maybe incorrectly, that Bestop had eliminated that S hook on the cable and switched to a cable anchored by an eyelet with a fasteners through the rail. I know that in my Sunrider the cable anchors are S hooks, but mine was made in spring of '22, same as my Gladiator. I first saw the eyelets not long after, if I remember correctly. I got lucky, my Sunrider (Jeep branded since I worked at the dealership then and wanted that discount) has always fit well. I won't say perfect, but it doesn't leak or have wind noises, and even the automatic car wash doesn't cause it to leak. I appreciate Bill's efforts to get this sorted out, when they are right they are a great accessory.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

It was my understanding, maybe incorrectly, that Bestop had eliminated that S hook on the cable and switched to a cable anchored by an eyelet with a fasteners through the rail. I know that in my Sunrider the cable anchors are S hooks, but mine was made in spring of '22, same as my Gladiator. I first saw the eyelets not long after, if I remember correctly. I got lucky, my Sunrider (Jeep branded since I worked at the dealership then and wanted that discount) has always fit well. I won't say perfect, but it doesn't leak or have wind noises, and even the automatic car wash doesn't cause it to leak. I appreciate Bill's efforts to get this sorted out, when they are right they are a great accessory.

Charles - I don't suppose you know the exact part number of yours from 2022?

Mine is AB - not sure what the difference between it and AA might be.

 

[Charles 236]

Charles - I don't suppose you know the exact part number of yours from 2022?

Mine is AB - not sure what the difference between it and AA might be.

I wish I could tell you. I cleaned my tool shed out a few weeks ago to make room for my bigger toolbox that I brought home a couple of weeks back. One of the things I threw away was the box it came in. If you don’t have a resolution when I am able to drive again (post surgery, probably a couple or three more weeks), I will get with the parts manager and see if we can find the record on it, it didn't come with the Jeep.

 

[Stan H]

I wish I could tell you. I cleaned my tool shed out a few weeks ago to make room for my bigger toolbox that I brought home a couple of weeks back. One of the things I threw away was the box it came in. If you don’t have a resolution when I am able to drive again (post surgery, probably a couple or three more weeks), I will get with the parts manager and see if we can find the record on it, it didn't come with the Jeep.

I don't think this is any help but I noticed that alot of part numbers on my jeep built in 9/20 that many of the part #'s end with AA and not AB could it just be the generational iterations if the Jeep Gladiator years . For instance the TPMS in the pre-6/21 models has a seperate TPMS unit and does not have an RFI hub.

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