Well, it wasnt the lifter tick I thought it was (Updated)

[ShadowsPapa]

It really bothers me that Jeep charges so high a price, that when a known issue like pre-mature wear and tare happens in enough numbers to make it a worthy issue, why thy done require proper treatment for the metal the parts are made out of? Like wouldn’t shot peening the cams rectify the problem? These engines and all modern engines are tech marvels, making power numbers equal to twice the displacement of a couple generations ago, with a fraction of the emissions!

We don't know real numbers, all the internet can do is speculate and claim to know. We also don't know what's been done or not done for cam treatment. .. only guess and speculate. (Actually, guess, since we don't have enough data to even speculate.)

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[Mad Mac]

Have we sacrificed bushing durability
on the altar of roller bearing fuel efficiency?

Prior to 2011,
Chrysler used bushings of sintered bronze.
Did Chrysler forfeit long-term reliability
to meet short term CAFE requirements
leaving us to pay a higher price
down the road?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Have we sacrificed bushing durability
on the altar of roller bearing fuel efficiency?

Prior to 2011,
Chrysler used bushings of sintered bronze.
Did Chrysler forfeit long-term reliability
to meet short term CAFE requirements
leaving us to pay a higher price
down the road?

What's that got to do with the PUG cam issues?
The PUG engine failures have zip to do with bearings or bushings.
Other companies, including GM, have used needle bearings for lifters and rockers for decades.
But these are not bearing/bushing failures at all. The rollers on these don't fail.
And they fixed the pre-upgrade follower bearing failures years ago - so that's a done deal - fixed.
Use the latest part number and your pre-PUG Pentastar won't have issues.

How is it short-term CAFE? Short-term???
The fines, prior to last year, were based on every 1/10th of a mpg they missed. So if they missed by 1 mpg, it was 10 times the fine.

 

[Sandman 4x4]

We don't know real numbers, all the internet can do is speculate and claim to know. We also don't know what's been done or not done for cam treatment. .. only guess and speculate. (Actually, guess, since we don't have enough data to even speculate.)

Once again your advice is so true. But the silence from Jeep over this issue tells a lot itself.

 

[Mad Mac]

Stop/start was created
to meet EPA emission targets
for the short term during testing
while adding cost and complexity
and aggravating all of us
for the long term.

Kind of like CAFE requirements.
But I could be wrong.
I often am.

NHTSA seat belts
are probably a good idea,
now that they have dropped
the seat belt interlock.

For you youngsters out there,
the seat belt interlock... never mind.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Stop/start was created
to meet EPA emission targets
for the short term during testing
while adding cost and complexity
and aggravating all of us
for the long term.

What? For the short term? What's that even mean?
It actually gets them CREDITS, but yet, it had to be enabled during testing to earn those credits.
GM got through or past the fines by using those credits to buy their way out of fines instead of using cash.

From a web study -
not technically mandated, but it was heavily rewarded through "off-cycle" credits because the technology saves fuel in real-world driving

Since it was shown to save fuel in real world driving, not lab testing, they earned credits.
Far from short term!

Seat belt interlock long gone on my 73 Javelin. It's all removed, not a trace of it left (but then, when you know automotive wiring, you can make a lot happen)

 

[MPMB]

We don't know real numbers, all the internet can do is speculate and claim to know. We also don't know what's been done or not done for cam treatment. .. only guess and speculate. (Actually, guess, since we don't have enough data to even speculate.)

The closest we can get is the ~10,000 unit backorder last summer for the cam kit.

That means at least 10,000 engines needed cams. But we don't know across how many models. And if there are roughly 4+ million 3.6L engines built since 2020, that's a pretty low error rate of 0.25%. For an engine used in roughly a dozen models in 4-5 nameplates?

No risk manager is taking that hit.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The closest we can get is the ~10,000 unit backorder last summer for the cam kit.

That means at least 10,000 engines needed cams. But we don't know across how many models. And if there are roughly 4+ million 3.6L engines built since 2020, that's a pretty low error rate of 0.25%. For an engine used in roughly a dozen models in 4-5 nameplates?

No risk manager is taking that hit.

We have to consider these engines were in Grand Cherokee since the 2016 model year, as well as others. I'd have to believe the number of PUG engines is way up there by now.

 

[BlackRuby23]

I still get this sound like a shovel being dragged across concrete on acceleration from 5-7 mph when I’m running slow from 1-10mph. If you let off the gas while creeping along then give it more gas it does it again. I don’t know if its the tranny or what. 2 or 4 wheel no matter.

Sounds like some freak solenoid engagement

I’m seriously considering trading it in for the Lainey Wilson Watermelon Moonshine edition F250 4x4

I've got that same noise at those same speeds on my '23. I believe it is detonation. It happens more in warm weather (summer) and at altitude. I have decided to just ignore it.

 

[BlackRuby23]

The closest we can get is the ~10,000 unit backorder last summer for the cam kit.

That means at least 10,000 engines needed cams.

That's just a snapshot of an inventory issue at one point in time. Doesn't the problem go back many years? There is absolutely no way to quantify the number based upon such limited data, but the logical conclusion is that it is WAY more than 10,000 based upon the backorder number.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

That's just a snapshot of an inventory issue at one point in time. Doesn't the problem go back many years? There is absolutely no way to quantify the number based upon such limited data, but the logical conclusion is that it is WAY more than 10,000 based upon the backorder number.

Can't go back too many years - the PUG was only released for the 2016 model year in certain FCA vehicles and not in the Wrangler until 2018 model year.

but the logical conclusion is that it is WAY more than 10,000 based upon the backorder number.

Still a drop in the hat compared to the many millions produced.
When you have so very many engines out there, you are bound to see more raw numbers for a problem, but the percentage is low due to those that are produced that have no issues.

 

[Dickies Outdoor's]

Update.... They are adding a 3rd day to the rebuild. Once they got in, they realized that the left side cam was bad also and the timing was off a hair, the timing would explain the power loss.

At least now I will almost have a brand new running engine! lol

 

[ShadowsPapa]

and the timing was off a hair,

What timing? Cam timing? That's a phaser issue.

 

[Dickies Outdoor's]

What timing? Cam timing? That's a phaser issue.

I am guessing cam timing, it was in a message and thats all he said. Either way, with repairing both side cams, it will be adjusted. (Hopefully properly ) I am not calling back to ask questions till its time to go get her. Its all under warranty except for the plug replacement which I am haviong them do while shes in, no added labor.

The rental 2025 Wagoneer I am actually enjoying for a change in pace

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I am guessing cam timing, it was in a message and thats all he said. Either way, with repairing both side cams, it will be adjusted. (Hopefully properly ) I am not calling back to ask questions till its time to go get her. Its all under warranty except for the plug replacement which I am haviong them do while shes in, no added labor.

The rental 2025 Wagoneer I am actually enjoying for a change in pace

They'll have it do a CCDIFF relearn and all should be good.

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