A tale of 2 test drives

[NoDoorsNoProblem]

My Mojave tires were at 42+ psi on delivery. At 34 psi it removed a little wandering but the difference wasn’t night and day either. It’s not like it suddenly felt like my wife’s AMG. The reality is that you’ll never get the steering feel of a vehicle riding on street tires with a rack and pinion steering system and IFS. It’s a truck with a solid front axle, all terrain tires (on many), and a steering box.

I know I won’t expect AMG steering, I guess I just expected better from it. Numerous others too like @dfwxjer and other posters have said theirs tracks straight and true and while not a sports car, handles solidly without steering slop. That’s all I really ask for and expect. And it’s odd to hear differing opinions and feedback from it, it seems like it’s a crapshoot whether the truck will be sorted from the factory or not.

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[ShadowsPapa]

I'd not be super worried about it. At the end of the day they still had to sae it which means towing up the Davis damn at 100 degrees. You are always gonna have some anecdotal info, and im sure in some cases it happens, but if it was a huge deal all the car rags and YouTubers would be jumping on

NHTSA has one complaint and no company communications on it. Take that for whatever it's worth.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I know I won’t expect AMG steering, I guess I just expected better from it. Numerous others too like @dfwxjer and other posters have said theirs tracks straight and true and while not a sports car, handles solidly without steering slop. That’s all I really ask for and expect. And it’s odd to hear differing opinions and feedback from it, it seems like it’s a crapshoot whether the truck will be sorted from the factory or not.

Jeep people keep making excuses for the few that have steering issues. If most of us have no issues, then that's the norm. My dealer service writer said these handle fine.
Why would these steer loose and wander? Why?
These have basically the same setup as the ZJ and WJ - recirculating ball steering gear and solid axle up front. And millions of those Grand Cherokees got sold to all sorts of people. The Grand Cherokee brought a lot of new people into the Jeep world. Women included.
My wife likes driving my truck and she drives a brand new rack and pinion full independent suspension Grand Cherokee. No wandering.

I'm trained in suspension and steering - there's zero reason these can't or shouldn't steer going down the highway or city streets like any other small or mid-sized truck. There's just no reason.
All I hear are excuses - but not a single technical reason. It's non-mechanics and DIYers who make the excuses. Not experts.
The fact there are thousands of us without issue should speak to something.

 

[NoDoorsNoProblem]

Jeep people keep making excuses for the few that have steering issues. If most of us have no issues, then that's the norm. My dealer service writer said these handle fine.
Why would these steer loose and wander? Why?
These have basically the same setup as the ZJ and WJ - recirculating ball steering gear and solid axle up front. And millions of those Grand Cherokees got sold to all sorts of people. The Grand Cherokee brought a lot of new people into the Jeep world. Women included.
My wife likes driving my truck and she drives a brand new rack and pinion full independent suspension Grand Cherokee. No wandering.

I'm trained in suspension and steering - there's zero reason these can't or shouldn't steer going down the highway or city streets like any other small or mid-sized truck. There's just no reason.
All I hear are excuses - but not a single technical reason. It's non-mechanics and DIYers who make the excuses. Not experts.
The fact there are thousands of us without issue should speak to something.

What do you think should be the sequence in troubleshooting? If I ordered a new factory Mojave or Rubicon and experienced that from when I picked up the truck, I can’t really go down the lot to find another I like that’s equipped the same and see if it will steer better. I know the first response people have is air down which I can easily do, but if that didn’t fix it, what’s next? I know the Synergy sector shaft brace has good reviews, but should I be checking anything else in the suspension like the drag link? Alignment? Get lower control arm drop brackets or Mopar lower control arms to adjust caster? (I most likely would get the sector shaft brace, and get the drop brackets as part of a 2” lift/level on a Mojave or rubicon)

 

[bleda2002]

Check air pressure, steer smarts shaft brace (better design with the sealed bearing), and adjustable control arms to dial in at least 6 degrees of caster.

That's basically going to get you to as good as it will be. With that said again, this will never be an ifs with rack and pinion steering. It's going to take time to get used to the general vagueness of a recirculating ball and to get used to making a correction and waiting for the response. I firmly believe a lot of the wandering people have is they end up overcorrecting their over corrections and just kind of bouncing back and fourth.

 

[mep4wd]

I would love to know what truly useful off road option Bronco has that a Rubicon doesn't have. If so...at what price point?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Check air pressure, steer smarts shaft brace (better design with the sealed bearing), and adjustable control arms to dial in at least 6 degrees of caster.

That's basically going to get you to as good as it will be. With that said again, this will never be an ifs with rack and pinion steering. It's going to take time to get used to the general vagueness of a recirculating ball and to get used to making a correction and waiting for the response. I firmly believe a lot of the wandering people have is they end up overcorrecting their over corrections and just kind of bouncing back and fourth.

Sorry, I have to sort of laugh a bit because - it will steer just about like any other truck with the same type of steering gear - the solid axle doesn't play into it.
In my case it WAS the steering gear - as stated by my dealer. Then when the new one got loose and the thing wandered all over, I took it back, asked them to check it over - and they called me and said they needed to replace the steering gear.
Now it's just fine - night and day difference.
It's a fact - these have had issues. It's also a fact that once they are fixed, they have no issues.
I've had two different steering gears on mine - and I know the difference between a JT that wanders and one that does not.
I've owned and driven almost every type of vehicle, and multiple trucks of various sizes (including two grain trucks)
If their JT is wandering, it's wandering. It's not the driver's fault. Mine alone should prove that.
The recirculating ball type steering sector is fine - not as quick and tight as rack and pinion, but it's been used on a whole lot of performance vehicles over the years, and used on Grand Cherokees for years. I always considered my prior Jeeps - ZJ, WJ, etc. - to handle and steer like any other car.
(sports and performance vehicles with rack and pinion have no place in these discussions)

People need to stop blaming the drivers - if it wanders and/or is loose, it IS. Jeep has admitted this!
People need to stop blaming the steering box design - these have been around for decades and do fine, even in trans-am racing, auto-cross and other events.
And it's not a solid axle thing. Suspension engineers have said as much (damn, I wish I had saved THAT link) Since the solid axle has the same type of settings for camber, caster, SAI, scrub radius and other factors, it should steer the same as anything else on the highway (rough roads are a different animal - we're talking highways)

 

[NoDoorsNoProblem]

I would love to know what truly useful off road option Bronco has that a Rubicon doesn't have. If so...at what price point?

For me, it’s not so much for me about an improved piece of off road gear in the Bronco as much as better features and overall package. For $50k, the same price as my gladiator Mojave build with Gupton, I’d get in the bronco: True factory washout interior and vinyl seats, way better power plant with the 2.7TT (I would know, I had it in an F150 and it rips) bigger 12” infotainment with 360 degree cameras, cowl mirrors vs. door mirrors that come off with the doors, frameless doors (personal preference but will be way easier to remove and store), no worries about the factory steering ability, and deeper 4.46 or 4.7 gears from the factory + 2.7 = no need to regear for 37s. Loren Healy also showed in a recent Lite Brite video that you can easily run 37s with a coil over and UCA without necessitating a differential drop which is awesome. It puts the cost of achieving 37s around the same to make that happen with a good 2-3” gladiator lift, which would include springs, shocks, LCA, possibly bump stop extensions, track bar, etc.

The diesel though is really tempting in the Gladiator. I looooved the way it drove. Just not happy about derating reports, both in loaded and unloaded trucks. Also, obviously the gladiator gasser rated to tow way more than the Bronco and you can’t beat the functionality of the truck bed, which I’d have to give up for a Bronco.

 

[NoDoorsNoProblem]

Sorry, I have to sort of laugh a bit because - it will steer just about like any other truck with the same type of steering gear - the solid axle doesn't play into it.
In my case it WAS the steering gear - as stated by my dealer. Then when the new one got loose and the thing wandered all over, I took it back, asked them to check it over - and they called me and said they needed to replace the steering gear.
Now it's just fine - night and day difference.
It's a fact - these have had issues. It's also a fact that once they are fixed, they have no issues.
I've had two different steering gears on mine - and I know the difference between a JT that wanders and one that does not.
I've owned and driven almost every type of vehicle, and multiple trucks of various sizes (including two grain trucks)
If their JT is wandering, it's wandering. It's not the driver's fault. Mine alone should prove that.
The recirculating ball type steering sector is fine - not as quick and tight as rack and pinion, but it's been used on a whole lot of performance vehicles over the years, and used on Grand Cherokees for years. I always considered my prior Jeeps - ZJ, WJ, etc. - to handle and steer like any other car.
(sports and performance vehicles with rack and pinion have no place in these discussions)

People need to stop blaming the drivers - if it wanders and/or is loose, it IS. Jeep has admitted this!
People need to stop blaming the steering box design - these have been around for decades and do fine, even in trans-am racing, auto-cross and other events.
And it's not a solid axle thing. Suspension engineers have said as much (damn, I wish I had saved THAT link) Since the solid axle has the same type of settings for camber, caster, SAI, scrub radius and other factors, it should steer the same as anything else on the highway (rough roads are a different animal - we're talking highways)

Thats something I’ve seen too, I read the thread where the user tightened up his steering gear nut and took the okay out of his steering. Did they replace the whole steering box on yours or just the gear inside?

 

[bleda2002]

Sorry, I have to sort of laugh a bit because - it will steer just about like any other truck with the same type of steering gear - the solid axle doesn't play into it.
In my case it WAS the steering gear - as stated by my dealer. Then when the new one got loose and the thing wandered all over, I took it back, asked them to check it over - and they called me and said they needed to replace the steering gear.
Now it's just fine - night and day difference.
It's a fact - these have had issues. It's also a fact that once they are fixed, they have no issues.
I've had two different steering gears on mine - and I know the difference between a JT that wanders and one that does not.
I've owned and driven almost every type of vehicle, and multiple trucks of various sizes (including two grain trucks)
If their JT is wandering, it's wandering. It's not the driver's fault. Mine alone should prove that.
The recirculating ball type steering sector is fine - not as quick and tight as rack and pinion, but it's been used on a whole lot of performance vehicles over the years, and used on Grand Cherokees for years. I always considered my prior Jeeps - ZJ, WJ, etc. - to handle and steer like any other car.
(sports and performance vehicles with rack and pinion have no place in these discussions)

People need to stop blaming the drivers - if it wanders and/or is loose, it IS. Jeep has admitted this!
People need to stop blaming the steering box design - these have been around for decades and do fine, even in trans-am racing, auto-cross and other events.
And it's not a solid axle thing. Suspension engineers have said as much (damn, I wish I had saved THAT link) Since the solid axle has the same type of settings for camber, caster, SAI, scrub radius and other factors, it should steer the same as anything else on the highway (rough roads are a different animal - we're talking highways)

I said a lot of the wander people report is people not used to the ball and over correcting, I know I had a learning curve.

There was clearly an issue with bad steering gear but people still report wander after it.

I also know you say this will steer as good as anything else with the same suspension and I believe you, but 70% of us probably have never owned a recirculating ball vehicle since they mostly fazed out in the 80s so saying it drives as good as other recirculating balls solid axle vehicles means nothing to us. My Jeep drives fine it goes straight on a straight road, it doesn't wander unless I saw back and forth too much, but it does not steer like my 2017 ram with it's tight rack and pinion. The recircuating ball just isn't as tight or precise and minor corrections take time to see the effect so if you are coming from a rack and pinion you end up dialing more in cause you don't see the effect right away so you bounce around. My wife had the same issue when she drives the jeep, at first she's sawing away correcting her corrections until she started to get the feel for it.

 

[NoDoorsNoProblem]

I said a lot of the wander people report is people not used to the ball and over correcting, I know I had a learning curve.

There was clearly an issue with bad steering gear but people still report wander after it.

I also know you say this will steer as good as anything else with the same suspension and I believe you, but 70% of us probably have never owned a recirculating ball vehicle since they mostly fazed out in the 80s so saying it drives as good as other recirculating balls solid axle vehicles means nothing to us. My Jeep drives fine it goes straight on a straight road, it doesn't wander unless I saw back and forth too much, but it does not steer like my 2017 ram with it's tight rack and pinion. The recircuating ball just isn't as tight or precise and minor corrections take time to see the effect so if you are coming from a rack and pinion you end up dialing more in cause you don't see the effect right away so you bounce around. My wife had the same issue when she drives the jeep, at first she's sawing away correcting her corrections until she started to get the feel for it.

That could be it for sure. I’ve only ever owned both a R&P IFS mid size and a full size truck, both GM and Ford, so it is a new sensation to me. On both of them after installing mild lift with coil overs, and 34” Falken AT3 on the F150 and 32” Cooper STT Pros on the Canyon, the steering still felt the exact same level of precision after the lift and tires.

It would seem like a lift and tires can throw off the Gladiator to a much greater extent, as evidenced by the Overland and Sport S Diesel driving the best IMO, followed by the Mojave then the rubicon at worst. If that’s the case and just an artifact of the RCB steering it’s a bit disappointing. I’d love to have a Gladiator with the steering of the Sport S I drove, but the lift and killer suspension of the Mojave. From my reading with other users doing different lifts, it seems opinions vary there too - some report the same thing, “after 37s and a2.5 lift it handles worse but oh well it’s a jeep”, and others will say it handles the same or better than stock (TFL comes to mind, Tommy claimed the 2” molar lift and 35s was the only truck he’s driven where the lift improved the drive).

 

[onewhippedpuppy]

I think the issue is a combo of unfamiliar new owners and actual defective parts from the factory. I came from a low mileage F250, I rebuilt the front end and added Bilstein 5100 shocks and steering damper, the Mojave is still a sports car in comparison! But for those coming from IFS and a rack and pinion, a Jeep won’t ever be as good. But there also seem to be legitimate parts issues that have been fixed by Jeep by replacing the steering box.

It’s funny, there are almost identical threads on the F250 forums talking about steering box adjustment. It’s not just us!

 

[Gvsukids]

One way to not worry about driving a box, is to take the doors and top off. The wind will blow right through

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