8 Speed Auto Transmission slipping problems at 13,000 miles (3rd time in for repairs)

[ShadowsPapa]

Valve bodies are simply castings with balls for check valves and shuttles for valves that control shifting and control pressures and so on. At least in legacy transmissions. They don't go bad. They get dirty or gummed up.
I've worked on at least two where a piece of lint caused destruction by locking a shuttle in the valve body bore.
In short, it's highly unlikely to be "bad" - but likely if there's a problem, it's dirt, debris or gum.
Maybe by "planetary clutch" you mean the clutch pack for a specific "gear" or combination of gears.
There are only 4 planetary gear sets, amazing how they can achieve any gear with only 3 of the 5 hydraulic clutches or brakes applied and can skip gears completely.

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[IslandFalconer]

Valve bodies are simply castings with balls for check valves and shuttles for valves that control shifting and control pressures and so on. At least in legacy transmissions. They don't go bad. They get dirty or gummed up.
I've worked on at least two where a piece of lint caused destruction by locking a shuttle in the valve body bore.
In short, it's highly unlikely to be "bad" - but likely if there's a problem, it's dirt, debris or gum.
Maybe by "planetary clutch" you mean the clutch pack for a specific "gear" or combination of gears.
There are only 4 planetary gear sets, amazing how they can achieve any gear with only 3 of the 5 hydraulic clutches or brakes applied and can skip gears completely.

That’s about right. I wasn’t trying to go in to that much detail. Also in todays flat rate, worst way to pay a technician world. No one fixes valve bodies. They just replaces them. Yes I mean planetary clutch there are 3 clutches and two brake packs. Clutch D in the diagram.
Here’s a good link if anyone wants to understand their transmission a little better

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2014/03/saturation-dive-zf-8-speed-automatic/

 

[Wkyfiregladdy]

Any updates from op?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

That’s about right. I wasn’t trying to go in to that much detail. Also in todays flat rate, worst way to pay a technician world. No one fixes valve bodies. They just replaces them. Yes I mean planetary clutch there are 3 clutches and two brake packs. Clutch D in the diagram.
Here’s a good link if anyone wants to understand their transmission a little better

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2014/03/saturation-dive-zf-8-speed-automatic/

That's a better image than what I have. In the past bands would have been used to stop the planetary gear set "drum" from rotating - wow, that was a long time ago.
I used to take valve bodies apart and go over every bore, every valve, every plate, every shuttle, every spring - and a single piece of tiny lint........ forget it.
Clutch packs of old could have a nicked or rolled seal. The teflon seals were a lot better than the early "rubber" seals but were still subject to nicks and damage. Seals of the past would get hard and leak fluid and not hold pressure leading to slipping clutches (or bands if it was a servo seal)
No one could afford to do today what I did back then.
I really enjoyed my years doing transmissions and other work - but I'm glad I'm not in that any more. That German engineering - can't beat it.

 

[IslandFalconer]

That's a better image than what I have. In the past bands would have been used to stop the planetary gear set "drum" from rotating - wow, that was a long time ago.
I used to take valve bodies apart and go over every bore, every valve, every plate, every shuttle, every spring - and a single piece of tiny lint........ forget it.
Clutch packs of old could have a nicked or rolled seal. The teflon seals were a lot better than the early "rubber" seals but were still subject to nicks and damage. Seals of the past would get hard and leak fluid and not hold pressure leading to slipping clutches (or bands if it was a servo seal)
No one could afford to do today what I did back then.
I really enjoyed my years doing transmissions and other work - but I'm glad I'm not in that any more. That German engineering - can't beat it.

I worked on John Deere power shift transmissions. Clutch and brake pack the size of a 5 gallon drum. I don’t miss those days at all

 

[ZX6steve]

OP here. Wish I could provide some solid info here with an update. Unfortunately I don't even have a diagnosis yet from the dealer. I dropped this truck off at the dealer on December 18th (19 days ago) and my "service advisor" has not made a single attempt to communicate with me. I call the dealership daily, over and over. My calls always get dumped into the service departments general voicemail box. I just hang-up and push redial about 20 times until someone answers, they usually don't. Instead, they sometimes just pick up the phone and immediately hang-up. Thats an effective way to get rid of customers I guess. I finally was able to speak to a human several days ago(not my assigned service advisor), and was told that a new transmission was ordered for my truck, but they did not know any details and would ask my assigned service advisor to call me, and he hasn't. So, my family and I have been without a vehicle for almost 3 weeks, through the holidays, even though when I purchased this truck, it came with 2 years membership in the JeepWave program, and in that documentation it states that loaner vehicles are provided for all scheduled maintenance "and service". I have asked @JeepCares to escalate my concerns to a case manager at Fiat Chrysler Automobiles U.S. Customer Care. I finally received an email from that agent yesterday. He asked me to provide him with the results of the diagnosis. What the hell? It's like the blind leading the blind at FCA. You can't make this stuff up. To be continued..........

 

[ZX6steve]

 

[ShadowsPapa]

"All scheduled maintenance and service" most likely means "oil changes, tire rotations, fluid changes" - scheduled maintenance isn't a break-down, it's "it's time for the fluid change". I believe the owner manual has a chart of "scheduled maintenance and service".

 

[Hootbro]

"All scheduled maintenance and service" most likely means "oil changes, tire rotations, fluid changes" - scheduled maintenance isn't a break-down, it's "it's time for the fluid change". I believe the owner manual has a chart of "scheduled maintenance and service".

I mentioned the same thing twice before. He is trying to wish it into something it is not.

Straight from the Jeep Wave website:

What does first day rental allowance cover?
First Day Rental Allowance provides $35.00 car rental allowance if the vehicle is to be serviced for any same day mechanical repair or maintenance service (excluding bodywork). Vehicles kept overnight are not eligible for First Day Rental. Please note: Excludes rental for bodywork to the exterior sheet metal/composite panel or frame collision repairs.
The rental vehicle must be obtained from a dealer. If a dealer does not have rental vehicles available, you may obtain one from a licensed rental agency. Rental coverage is subject to state and local laws and policies imposed by the rental agency. Rental charges in excess of the amount allowed by the plan are the member’s responsibility. The plan is not responsible for any refusal of a rental agency to rent a vehicle to you.{/quote]

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I mentioned the same thing twice before. He is trying to wish it into something it is not.

Straight from the Jeep Wave website:

It's an allowance as that reads. Not a "here's your free rental vehicle for the week".

It's 35 bucks allowance for a 1 day rental - and like a lot of places, dealers here have run out of rentals. They've been sold due to the shortage of vehicles, or are already otherwise out. First come, first served. There's no way a dealer can keep 15 vehicles around as rentals. It clearly says if the dealer doesn't have one available, you may go to a rental agency and get one........ (and you'll be reimbursed the 35, I assume)

 

[ZX6steve]

"All scheduled maintenance and service" most likely means "oil changes, tire rotations, fluid changes" - scheduled maintenance isn't a break-down, it's "it's time for the fluid change". I believe the owner manual has a chart of "scheduled maintenance and service".

There of course is "scheduled" maintenance. There is not "scheduled" service. Of course, what you are saying is likely going to be the response I get from FCA, and FCA's pseudo employee/advocate Hootbro. The fact is, if what you say is true, and that is the response that I get from FCA, then the documentation on the JeepWave paperwork is completely misleading to the consumer. When a FCA salesman tells you at the time of purchase, that you will be provided a vehicle for any service requirements, and shows you the paperwork with that statement on it (see the pic of my JeepWave card) then you proceed with the purchase with that belief. Period. You can make all the FCA apologist statements on here about "most likely means" and quote fine print statements on links off of web-sites all you want. What right is right, and being misled by FCA is WRONG!!! End of story. I can understand where many of the hardcore Jeep enthusiast on here are coming from, because I have been one for the past 20 years, and 4 Jeeps vehicles later. But I hope none of the FCA apologist on here have future problems with there vehicles, and aren't subject to the crap that I have been put through with this truck, and with FCA's horrible customer service. Perhaps if they are, then their tune might change as well. I am NOT trying to take advantage of any situation here, or wish anything into something. I bought a $50,000 truck that only has 13,000 miles on it, and it has left me and my family stranded 3 times, with multiple tow in's to the dealership. Who's being taken advantage of here?

 

[Gladman]

This saga makes me appreciate my dealer. Yes, my vehicle was at the shop for 19 weeks - not a typo - for a front axle shaft issue, however I was given a 2020 Gladiator launch edition Rubicon with about 10,000 km on it to drive for the whole time it was awaiting engineering instructions, inspections, etc. from Jeep and FCA.
The dealer hoped to re-coup costs from Jeep for the Rubicon but no guarantee, and I did not ask if they were made whole.

 

[IslandFalconer]

Ok, worked in dealerships for a long time. I’ve been everything from service tech, all the way to fixed operations manager. So #1 you are upset. I agree this is not the way to treat a customer. #2 Jeep wave fine print, and what your salesman said are two different things. People here are just pointing out the fine print. We get you are angry, most people would be. But venting on everyone here isn’t going to help. Now, if your angry behind a keyboard, and people aren’t answering when they see your number, I’m going to guess you’re not being as patient as you could be. Obviously this is not my staff or my dealership. I wouldn’t leave you in the dark like this for weeks. But since it’s not mine, here’s my advice. ( take it for what it is, advise is like a$$ holes we all have one )

Venting on service advisors is of little to no use, many ( not all ) don’t know much about cars
and many are overwhelmed, and under payed.

what your salesman “ sold “ you in the Jeep wave program vs what it actually does/is are two different things ( this is not the service departments fault )

NOW THE ADVICE

Ask to meet with the

Fixed operations manager And The Sales Manager ( at the same time )

These two people need to be your friend, getting angry and irate will not help you here
Trust me, they deal with it a lot. An angry customer ( you at this point ) is a result of multiple issues from multiple staff that report to them. Communication here is key, ( coffee, donuts peace offering is good here too ) if you’re in a really good mood ( coffee for service advisor staff also good )
Be honest, make your case, don’t be angry with them, be fair be polite.

To Fixed Op Manager
My gladiator has X issue
I dropped it off on X date
I didn‘t get an answer for X days
My service advisor X has not made any outward calls to me or communicated with me, I have had to make calls on multiple occasions to the dealership to get these answers.
when is my transmission expected

To Sales Manager
I purchased my vehicle from X
X sold me Jeep wave
X told me that Jeep wave included service loaner
i purchased Jeep wave for that reason
i have been a loyal Jeep consumer for X years/ X vehicles
can you provide me with a loaner or a rental, as it was my understanding that that’s what Jeep wave was for and why I purchased it.


Now, on a more personal note ( more advice from my personal experience )

Try to not be emotional about it. I know it’s hard but emotions and anger and frustration often cloud the situation, and add tension where it’s not neede. You don’t want to be angry, no one does.
these people at the dealership, probably they dropped the ball, and now it’s cascading.
You’re angry, and they have a mess on their hands. Add in the holidays and CoVid, and you get a bunch of stuff that snowballed the issue. You have every right to be angry, but taking that anger out on the people who ultimately will be fixing this truck isn’t going to resolve anything.
Personally, I always made sure my service advisors made outward calls, I did my best to empower them to make things right. But not many advisors are given the latitude they need, often they aren’t even authorized to rent vehicles for customers. So be calm, be clear, be civil and make your case. A little Humility can sometimes fix things too.

I hope this gets resolved for you FCA is no better than or really any worse than most.
Most often good service comes from good dealership owners, and managers not from the company.

The only two brand I’ve worked for that went above and beyond were Mercedes and BMW
( They are customer centric brands )

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Personally, I always made sure my service advisors made outward calls, I did my best to empower them to make things right. But not many advisors are given the latitude they need, often they aren’t even authorized to rent vehicles for customers. So be calm, be clear, be civil and make your case.

That's the one thing that could be improved where I take mine - letting me know status. But sometimes it's perfect and they call right away and are accurate as they can be with timing and such. Another time - no call, no call, I call and miss them, phone tag - later found out there were only two advisors there due to covid, one having a wife giving birth, and other stuff. Ah, that's fine, I can accept that.
I normally present the info and then say "what can we do to fix this situation".

 

[IslandFalconer]

That's the one thing that could be improved where I take mine - letting me know status. But sometimes it's perfect and they call right away and are accurate as they can be with timing and such. Another time - no call, no call, I call and miss them, phone tag - later found out there were only two advisors there due to covid, one having a wife giving birth, and other stuff. Ah, that's fine, I can accept that.
I normally present the info and then say "what can we do to fix this situation".

It’s a hard thing these days in dealerships. And finding good staff is only half the battle. Finding good managers who train employees to be customer focused and to take initiative is also hard.
I prefer my advisor get the customer taken care of over it ending up on my desk, or an angry customer in my office. Because by the time it’s that bad, it’s really hard to resolve.

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