2022 Wrangler 4xe lease (bend over and lube up)

[dcmdon]

I can't help myself.

Lets assume the lease is 3 years and 12,000 miles per year.

Lets assume best case. That the 4xe uses its gas engine only 20% of the time. So figure 2400 miles per year. When in electric mode, you have a 17 kwh battery giving you roughly 25 miles range.
So you are "burning" about .7 kw per mile in electric mode.

Lets assume the RDX gets 24 mpg and the Wrangler 4xe gets 20 mpg when running as a hybrid. (Both of these values from fuel economy.gov)

RDX -
12,000 miles/yr for 3 years is 36,000 miles.
36,000 miles at 24 mpg = 1500 gallons.
1500 gallons x $5/gallon = $7500 in fuel spent over those 3 years.

Wrangler 4xe
36,0000 miles total.
7200 miles in hybrid mode at 20 mpg = 360 gallons, 360 x $5/gal = $1800 in gasoline spent in 3 yrs
28,800 miles in electric mode at .7kwh per mile = 20,160 kwh
20,160 kwh times $0.15 per kw = $3024 in electricity to go 36,000 miles.
This is a very LOW estimate for electric cost considering generation and transmission fees plus taxes)
$3024 in electricity + $1800 in gas = $4824 in total fuel to go 36,000 miles.

So you will give up the RDX and pay whatever more it costs for the Wrangler to save
$2676 in fuel over 3 years????!!!!!??!?!?!?!?! ($7500 - $4824 =$2676)

That's insanity. False economy, whatever you want to call it.

However, if she just wants the Jeep, and you can afford it. Fantastic. But this is NOT about saving money like you said in your OP "With Gas prices what they are".

I hope this helps.

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[texanjeeper]

But...but...think of all of the trees and baby seals you'll save by going 'E'.

 

[dcmdon]

One other thing. I'm going to skip some of the intermediate math but here it goes.

If you assume BEST CASE for economy for the 4xe, which is 100% electric usage, you end up at a savings of

(36,000 x .7 ) x .15 = $3780 in electricity for 36000 miles.

7500-3780 = a total fuel savings of $3720 over 3 years

Or about $103 per month.

That hardly makes up for everything else.

THIS - Is why everyone should have paid attention in high school math. (though this is really an 8th grade word problem). A bit of math shows that its ludicrous to atttmpt to save money by buying a $60,000 hybrid.

 

[ezekio3160]

I don't have time to run all the numbers.

But in short. its absolute INSANITY to switch from an RDX to a Jeep Wrangler 4xe. Any Jeep Wrangler 4xe because "With gas prices what they are".

You will never make it up. NEVER.

Either don't do the deal. Or admit, that you just want another Jeep and are willing to spend for it.

There is no money to be saved here.

Especially when you consider that the RDX is a vehicle that you could run to 200,000 miles if you wanted to. Or more practically would remain a nice driving, good looking rig for 120,000 miles.

A version 1.0 Jeep hybrid is a vehicle you don't want to own after the warranty is gone. Which is probably why you are considering leasing. Smart move.

Also, the JL forum is full of horror stories of 4xe owners
1) waiting months for parts
2) having to deal with service writers who don't understand how these things work.
3) having to deal with techs who have not yet been trained on this vehicle, so if anything becomes even a bit challenging, they need to go to Jeep and get guidance.

Actually, now that I mention all that. Maybe you should keep the RDX for when the Jeep is in the shop.

Would selling JTR for a Tesla model Y help savings long term? Asking because you seem to do the math and I still can’t figure out if it’s worth it especially if batter has to be replaced costing 8-12k on battery alone.

 

[PlayfulBird]

Would selling JTR for a Tesla model Y help savings long term? Asking because you seem to do the math and I still can’t figure out if it’s worth it especially if batter has to be replaced costing 8-12k on battery alone.

In Germany, where gas costs way more, it still does not make sense unless you have a home with large solar farm off grid type set up. Then depending on your use it can make sense.

 

[PlayfulBird]

50 miles on full electric alone in a 4Xe Wrangler

if that was true, it would fall under our law of being subsidized...

Please make a video of you doing 50 miles (80 km) full electric. Even with traffic, breaking recuperation it is not possible in my experience and we have decent size traffic jams here too. If that's true I will gladly delete my post and apologize for my statements. I would love to be wrong
You either went downhill only or forgot that you charged up or did not notice the engine running. Maybe accidentally confusing your stats or somehow have a magical vehicle that does double (i know regen, but common double) what normal wrangler 4xe manage. Do you hide a powerbank in your boot that you're not telling anyone about?

Also, you then have no aircon or navigation/radio on, no lights.

It is max rated 40km and that is bone stock with road tires empty vehicle and no wind, no electric being drawn, 24 miles so about 36 km is plausible. You might eek out 40 miles or so with downhill and traffic recuperation. I doubt it though.

Also do not take my word, or that of our jeep community, for it. Actual real people who do not care about greenwashing, but love the vehicle for the tech and actual benefits which are not mpg gains but rather fun, off road use and usability.

And no I am fairly certain there are no differences US vs EU 4XE

If this article for example was lying, stellantis would sue them into the ground btw

https://insideevs.com/reviews/523160/jeep-wrangler-4xe-driving-review/

Quote:

The Wrangler 4xe is EPA rated for 21 miles in all-electric mode and a total of 370 miles of driving range including driving in hybrid mode. However, I was able to average about 26 miles per charge in my week-long loan and one time a drove 30 miles before the vehicle switched to hybrid mode. In our 70-mph highway range test, we were able to drive the 4xe 21.8 miles on battery alone.

While driving in hybrid mode, the Wrangler 4xe isn't particularly efficient and is EPA rated at only 20 mpg. That's actually worse than the Ecodiesel (25 mpg), the 2.0L Turbo (22 mpg), and the V6 with automatic transmission (21 mpg). Only the V6 with manual transmission (19 mpg) and the 392 V8 (14 mpg) have worse fuel economy ratings.

However, that can be a little misleading. That's because your average fuel economy will greatly depend on how you use the Jeep 4xe. If you take lots of short trips and recharge between drives, you can actually attain a very respectable average MPG rating

Stop lying to yourself and trying to convert people based on non-real world stats. Stop greenwashing, stop thinking you will greatly save money.

It is a Jeep. There are plenty of issues that will cost you money, but you will enjoy the vehicle and have a huge grin on your face. If you buy a Jeep for any reason other than joy, you are delusional.
Like the OPs wife said, for that money and I still have to mechanically adjust my seat... and like the OP said probably she did not really understand the wrangler charm, and that is fine she enjoyed it.

 

[DirkG]

One other thing. I'm going to skip some of the intermediate math but here it goes.

If you assume BEST CASE for economy for the 4xe, which is 100% electric usage, you end up at a savings of

(36,000 x .7 ) x .15 = $3780 in electricity for 36000 miles.

7500-3780 = a total fuel savings of $3720 over 3 years

Or about $103 per month.

That hardly makes up for everything else.

THIS - Is why everyone should have paid attention in high school math. (though this is really an 8th grade word problem). A bit of math shows that its ludicrous to atttmpt to save money by buying a $60,000 hybrid.

Easy Don, back away from the keyboard. You made your point. I was an Economics major and have my MBA. I know the numbers. And truth be told, I'm a serious tight-ass with money. This is about wanting to get my wife into a Wrangler because well, sh$t, I like Jeeps.

But as I mentioned, the numbers are ridiculous. "Gas prices what they are" was simply a nod to the 4xe over a regular Wrangler. And frankly, especially here in CA, electrification is coming and I was curious about owning a 4xe.

And I know the value of owning Acuras because we've had at least one Acura in our stable since 2003. I like luxury, but really don't want to pay for it (tight ass). Hence why Acura and not MB, BMW, etc.

 

[Orange01z28]

I ran into a similar situation when trying to take advantage of a fca lease deal on a ram 1500 a few years ago. I believe those lease programs advertised do more to hurt brand loyalty than help it. When the dealer don't have to participate then what is the point of offering it? You are just bringing people into the showroom with false advertising.

I got lured into a CDR dealership to buy a Ram and the same thing happened to me with the programs that were being advertised vs what the actual price was. I was still fine with that until they tried to give me $500 for my trade in

That being said, it was the Huntington Beach dealership which I've now learned has a pretty shit reputation

Thinking back, this was late 2015 and I was mad about it being $33k instead of $30k... could you imagine buying a non-Tradesman Ram for that now?!?

 

[Orange01z28]

Nice of you to assume.

I speak only purely from experience of having driven a 4Xe in longer trips and nearly 150 miles off road through several National and state park trails.

You mentioned Renegade 4Xe, and it seems you’re in Germany. The WLTP cycle and the American EPA cycle are very different, with the EPA cycle being closer to real world estimates.

I’ve gone more than 50 miles on full electric alone in a 4Xe Wrangler, most of which was stop and go traffic l, which allowed the electric battery to regen from braking.

I’ve seen my buddies 4Xe travel nearly 600 miles between fuel-ups, because he is almost exclusively in EV mode, and uses public and home charging whenever possible.

There are always market differences between global models, so you might be experiencing something that doesn’t apply to the US market. I can’t say I’ve ever experienced the engine kicking on when the battery was more than 5% charged unless you’re flooding the gas pedal and it kicks on to compensate for the low battery charge.

In the US it’s the only PHEV in the off-road segment, and the #1 selling PHEV in America. I have attached a chart from the US EPA comparing the RAV4 Prime (a class size below, and geared towards on-road only use) and an X5 XDrive50e which is the closest midsized PHEV in the US market to the Wrangler 4Xe. The Prime is more efficient, but it’s also an overall smaller vehicle and weighs less than the wrangler. It’s also not a brick and flows better through the air. The X5 is much more comparable in size and weight to the 4Xe and both are similar on efficiency.

Brad proves different

 

[The Bean]

Brad proves different

People are really getting pressed over my experiences with the 4Xe powertrain being different. Efficiency is dictated by many factors driving style being one of them.

On serious off-road trails with full battery I’ve gotten about 3.5 miles on pure EV from a full battery (about 2 hours driving time as it was practically swampland that you were crossing through between banks).

In my opinion, the 4Xe is the best powertrain Jeep offers. As much power as a 392 JL, but without paying a fuel penalty for having the power. The powertrain itself is incredibly smooth and the transitions between the engine and battery are seamless.

I also exclusively lease my vehicles, and with the 4Xe, Jeep automatically throws in the $7,500EV credit as an incentive on the lease. Lease payments on 4Xe’s have been as low as $400/mo, and most recently the average is around $430/mo which makes it an extremely enticing lease option.

 

[DirkG]

I got lured into a CDR dealership to buy a Ram and the same thing happened to me with the programs that were being advertised vs what the actual price was. I was still fine with that until they tried to give me $500 for my trade in

That being said, it was the Huntington Beach dealership which I've now learned has a pretty shit reputation

Thinking back, this was late 2015 and I was mad about it being $33k instead of $30k... could you imagine buying a non-Tradesman Ram for that now?!?

Yeah I'm very familiar with HB CDJR. I used to work in HB and passed by there a lot. Been on the lot for various car inquiries with family and friends, but have never bought there. There's a reason for that.

What truly amazes me is that most of these salesmen and women have no clue that they are dinosaurs. Literally. The asteroid is coming because anyone that is currently under 30 will have no intention of buying a car in person. The pandemic proved that it's not only possible, but much easier just to buy a car online. Tesla has a wonderfully successful business model and it's driving the dealer and labor unions nuts.

 

[Orange01z28]

Yeah I'm very familiar with HB CDJR. I used to work in HB and passed by there a lot. Been on the lot for various car inquiries with family and friends, but have never bought there. There's a reason for that.

What truly amazes me is that most of these salesmen and women have no clue that they are dinosaurs. Literally. The asteroid is coming because anyone that is currently under 30 will have no intention of buying a car in person. The pandemic proved that it's not only possible, but much easier just to buy a car online. Tesla has a wonderfully successful business model and it's driving the dealer and labor unions nuts.

I've bought for my wife through both Carmax and Carvana, Carvana is even easier than Carmax but Carmax is just someone filling out the paperwork for you anyway

There's dealerships around where I live that do a similar concierge service where you do everything online and on the phone until the final signing that takes a couple minutes at most. Then of course there's the online buying service that a lot of dealerships have where you build your deal online

Unfortunately, there's so many douchebags who think that modern day life is the same as it was in a North African Bazaar where they're bargaining for everything the dealership model will never go away

Maybe the young people wanting to do it all online will help kill it though. We can hope

 

[dcmdon]

Easy Don, back away from the keyboard. You made your point. I was an Economics major and have my MBA. I know the numbers. And truth be told, I'm a serious tight-ass with money. This is about wanting to get my wife into a Wrangler because well, sh$t, I like Jeeps.

But as I mentioned, the numbers are ridiculous. "Gas prices what they are" was simply a nod to the 4xe over a regular Wrangler. And frankly, especially here in CA, electrification is coming and I was curious about owning a 4xe.

And I know the value of owning Acuras because we've had at least one Acura in our stable since 2003. I like luxury, but really don't want to pay for it (tight ass). Hence why Acura and not MB, BMW, etc.

That's not what you said in your OP. You said something like "because of teh cost of gas". Which wouldn't justify the purchase, not even close.

If the real reason is "I want one". Well then fantastic. Have a great time. ;-)

 

[dcmdon]

Would selling JTR for a Tesla model Y help savings long term? Asking because you seem to do the math and I still can’t figure out if it’s worth it especially if batter has to be replaced costing 8-12k on battery alone.

If you are serious about this math, IM me and we can talk. Be prepared to discuss.

What you owe on the jeep
What the jeep is worht
what the Tesla will cost
what the sales tax is in your localle
your creditworthiness.
how long you would intend to keep the Tesla

 

[ezekio3160]

If you are serious about this math, IM me and we can talk. Be prepared to discuss.

What you owe on the jeep
What the jeep is worht
what the Tesla will cost
what the sales tax is in your localle
your creditworthiness.
how long you would intend to keep the Tesla

#1 it’s paid off. It’s a Jeep 2021 gladiator Rubicon
#2 looking at Tesla model y out door with taxes 62k
#3 sales tax 8.75
#4 credit 760
#5 want to keep as long as 10-12 years

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