2022 gladiator death wobble

[Lunentucker]

I am far from an expert and the only time I’ve had death wobble is when I didn’t torque the track bar correctly. That being said, I’ve been working on a steering issue and I came across this video. My problem isn’t death wobble. I’m pretty confident it’s a bad aluminum steering box.
Anyway, It’s a stupid video, but the info might be worth considering. I don’t have the link. It’s some guy that has a shop in Vegas, I think? Do a YouTube search for “ Death Wobble: Identified, Explained, ELIMINATED!“ if you’re interested.

Very interesting that he recommends a slight toe OUT, just like Steer Smarts does.

Sponsored

 

[Lunentucker]

44ft. lbs + 135 degrees for steel gear boxes.

That's what Steer Smarts says on the Yeti brace installation instructions.

 

[IanNubbit]

Very interesting that he recommends a slight toe OUT, just like Steer Smarts does.

Just checking with Jeep's Specs. Total Toe is reccomend at 0.2 degrees +/- 0.2 deggrees. That means from 0 to 0.4 degrees is within spec. thats toes in. Weird they'd recommend the opposite.

 

[Lunentucker]

Just checking with Jeep's Specs. Total Toe is reccomend at 0.2 degrees +/- 0.2 deggrees. That means from 0 to 0.4 degrees is within spec. thats toes out...

Did mine yesterday and left it at about 1/16" on the 17 inch rims using the 4/8 o'clock positions.
Somebody who paid more attention in Geometry class will have to say what that is in degrees.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Just checking with Jeep's Specs. Total Toe is reccomend at 0.2 degrees +/- 0.2 deggrees. That means from 0 to 0.4 degrees is within spec. thats toes in. Weird they'd recommend the opposite.

They are finding bandaids to resolve "death wobble" - not fixing things.
It's what a lot of Youtubers do - hey, I found THE solution! "Found" - like no one else in 60 years has ever thought of that............. and DW has existed long before "Wrangler" and "Gladiator" (in current incarnation)

This echoes every college text and HS paper I have, as well as other tech info. So they are countering decades of "conventional wisdom" and engineering.

From a book on this very topic -

The front wheels on most rear-drive road cars benefit from a touch of toe-in. It compensates for the road force that can induce a toe-out condition. Toe-in also eliminates lash in the various components, which enhances straight-line stability.

Gee, eliminates lash - that's what that outfit says toe-out does.
Toe in takes the slack out of the parts, makes the vehicle handle better around corners, and compensates for road forces trying to pry the tires outward.

 

[Puch]

Very interesting that he recommends a slight toe OUT, just like Steer Smarts does.

Yeah I’m pretty sure I have to replace my aluminum box with steel. I might ask the alignment tech to get it as close to the outer limits of spec at that time.

 

[IanNubbit]

They are finding bandaids to resolve "death wobble" - not fixing things.
It's what a lot of Youtubers do - hey, I found THE solution! "Found" - like no one else in 60 years has ever thought of that............. and DW has existed long before "Wrangler" and "Gladiator" (in current incarnation)

This echoes every college text and HS paper I have, as well as other tech info. So they are countering decades of "conventional wisdom" and engineering.

From a book on this very topic -

The front wheels on most rear-drive road cars benefit from a touch of toe-in. It compensates for the road force that can induce a toe-out condition. Toe-in also eliminates lash in the various components, which enhances straight-line stability.

Gee, eliminates lash - that's what that outfit says toe-out does.
Toe in takes the slack out of the parts, makes the vehicle handle better around corners, and compensates for road forces trying to pry the tires outward.

All in all. I want to know why these have so many cases of shimmy/wobble brand new. And unforntualy it seems like a engineering degree is the only way to find out why these are more prone to it then previous generations. Could just be more customer expecting them to ride like cadillacs? maybe, probably not though. Ive seen dampers act as springs, that seems to mostly be resolved. Factory track bars seem to b sub par. Currently have one sitting in the lot with 5k miles, with actual wobble, all bolts tights, track bar is deflecting/bending front to back about an inch when turning the wheel back and forth about 1/8th a turn over and over. I know these are tubes and not rods like previous generations. Aluminum gear box and bolts seems they where defintly the wrong choice, but been resolved. Maybe its just the track bar, ive never actually seen these new vehciles have loose/worn joints/bushings that some claim on stock with sub 10-20k miles, could be, but havent seen it yet. Maybe the steering knuckles really are an issue being alluminum as well? Personally haven't seen a wobble/shimmy concern on Mojave/392 etc with the factory steal knuckles. IDK. Something is just plain wrong on JL/JTs and Jeep still hasn't seemed to have fix it since 2018 and thats just sad. Aftermarket, yes I think modifing alignments need to be done from stock, that does not include going against simple physics (toe in, always, never toe out. No matter how it feels/acts, its one move away from the wheel hard pulling and locking all the way left/right. It's not safe like that). But stock, I think alignment specs are right because some vehicles are fine with it, some aren't, its seems theres defiantly a part manufcaturing/design choice somewhere that was just the wrong one and it still hasn't been found.

 

[Lunentucker]

They are finding bandaids to resolve "death wobble" - not fixing things.
It's what a lot of Youtubers do - hey, I found THE solution! "Found" - like no one else in 60 years has ever thought of that............. and DW has existed long before "Wrangler" and "Gladiator" (in current incarnation)

This echoes every college text and HS paper I have, as well as other tech info. So they are countering decades of "conventional wisdom" and engineering.

From a book on this very topic -

The front wheels on most rear-drive road cars benefit from a touch of toe-in. It compensates for the road force that can induce a toe-out condition. Toe-in also eliminates lash in the various components, which enhances straight-line stability.

Gee, eliminates lash - that's what that outfit says toe-out does.
Toe in takes the slack out of the parts, makes the vehicle handle better around corners, and compensates for road forces trying to pry the tires outward.

 

[Buckeye Jeeper]

I don't recall the specific torque specs for the steering gear to frame bolts, but I had them at one time and did a check on my 2020 - and it was a torque plus degree spec and I got about 1/4 turn more out of mine using the FCA specs as the techs have access to.
I was just checking as I wanted to cover all bases before going back to the dealer about it.

As posted above this post - any deflection is bad and some have actually made videos of the flex when the steering wheel is turned and the truck is stationary - not even on large tires. Larger tires = more stress/pressure when turning so flex with stock tires leads to much more with bigger tires.
And I've found with weight on the front of my truck, I can make the PS pause - take a second to actually assist in turning.

Flexing steel leads to stress cracking - time to look into that part of it as a problem, even if it's not "the" cause of DW in your specific case - it ain't good and imagine how that steering gear is moving once DW starts..................

Yes I am installing a steer smarts sector shaft brace this weekend. I had actually found the steering box bolts a little loose a couple weeks ago and was hoping that was it. Had my wife turning the wheel because I could hear it. It was the steering box flexing off the frame then setting back down. Tightened them ( got maybe 1/4 turn ) on each bolt. The noise went away but that was all.

 

[Buckeye Jeeper]

All in all. I want to know why these have so many cases of shimmy/wobble brand new. And unforntualy it seems like a engineering degree is the only way to find out why these are more prone to it then previous generations. Could just be more customer expecting them to ride like cadillacs? maybe, probably not though. Ive seen dampers act as springs, that seems to mostly be resolved. Factory track bars seem to b sub par. Currently have one sitting in the lot with 5k miles, with actual wobble, all bolts tights, track bar is deflecting/bending front to back about an inch when turning the wheel back and forth about 1/8th a turn over and over. I know these are tubes and not rods like previous generations. Aluminum gear box and bolts seems they where defintly the wrong choice, but been resolved. Maybe its just the track bar, ive never actually seen these new vehciles have loose/worn joints/bushings that some claim on stock with sub 10-20k miles, could be, but havent seen it yet. Maybe the steering knuckles really are an issue being alluminum as well? Personally haven't seen a wobble/shimmy concern on Mojave/392 etc with the factory steal knuckles. IDK. Something is just plain wrong on JL/JTs and Jeep still hasn't seemed to have fix it since 2018 and thats just sad. Aftermarket, yes I think modifing alignments need to be done from stock, that does not include going against simple physics (toe in, always, never toe out. No matter how it feels/acts, its one move away from the wheel hard pulling and locking all the way left/right. It's not safe like that). But stock, I think alignment specs are right because some vehicles are fine with it, some aren't, its seems theres defiantly a part manufcaturing/design choice somewhere that was just the wrong one and it still hasn't been found.

I agree, I have a heavy duty track bar, I’ve installed 2.5 ton steering as well. I knew from the start it wasn’t gonna ride like my 2019 Chevy trail boss. But it still amazes me how it does drive, ride and handle. It’s just that bump at around 35-40 mph that sends it into death wobble that’s getting me. I I don’t mean a little wobble. It will force me to come to a stop completely. It feels like I suddenly went from round tires to center blocks like right now and the whole front end feels like it’s gonna walk right out from under me. I’m not giving up on it though, I love my truck and it’s capabilities.

 

[Buckeye Jeeper]

That’s your problem

I’m very ell leaning to that myself

 

[IanNubbit]

I agree, I have a heavy duty track bar, I’ve installed 2.5 ton steering as well. I knew from the start it wasn’t gonna ride like my 2019 Chevy trail boss. But it still amazes me how it does drive, ride and handle. It’s just that bump at around 35-40 mph that sends it into death wobble that’s getting me. I I don’t mean a little wobble. It will force me to come to a stop completely. It feels like I suddenly went from round tires to center blocks like right now and the whole front end feels like it’s gonna walk right out from under me. I’m not giving up on it though, I love my truck and it’s capabilities.

Definitely get that steering get bracketry and fastners fixed up.

 

[Jteakus]

This little bit of deflection caused one of the worst cases of DW I’ve ever seen

 

[Buckeye Jeeper]

This little bit of deflection caused one of the worst cases of DW I’ve ever seen

Oh yes that’s exactly what I am seeing in it, probably a slight bit more. Not slop, just the steering box in itself flexing on the frame. But on a side note, it got up to 60 here today. It was 49 when I left for work this morning. Never did it in any of the places it normally will at the speed it does it on my way to work or home ! I’m thinking the cold shrinking the metal in the gear box and bolts causes the deflection to be worse ! Definitely something to the cold effecting it as well.

 

[IanNubbit]

Oh yes that’s exactly what I am seeing in it, probably a slight bit more. Not slop, just the steering box in itself flexing on the frame. But on a side note, it got up to 60 here today. It was 49 when I left for work this morning. Never did it in any of the places it normally will at the speed it does it on my way to work or home ! I’m thinking the cold shrinking the metal in the gear box and bolts causes the deflection to be worse ! Definitely something to the cold effecting it as well.

Most likely the bolts and threads themselves. Bolts are stretched when properly installed and are not be reused

Sponsored