6MT Manual Transmission Failure - Warranty Experience Sucks

[Deleted member 39643]

Hey all, have a 21 Gladiator Sport with the 6 speed manual that recently experienced a catastrophic transmission failure at only 36K miles. Towed it into the nearest dealership who descirbe it as breaking open and spewing fluid everywhere. Only mods are a 2 in front lift and some 33s.

Failure occured while driving driving down the highway. My friend was taking it for a drive at the time so don't have personal knowledge of what happened but they described hearing a pop before coast to a stop. Last MT failure I had was in a pontiac vibe, had a pretty similar experience there but at 160k miles.

Warranty expereince has been crap so far. First they accused me of towing something extreme. In a gladiator? They probably think my friend money shifted but that seems kinda ridiculous to me since 2nd gear can drive at highway speeds, and from what I've looked up a money shift would more likely damaage the engine than the tranny. So far they have had the jeep nearly two work weeks and have yet to order me a new transmission or begin a rebuild. This is a message from their service rep:

"we are going to possible need to do some tear down and investigation on how this happen. did the end seize causing the transmission to fail or did something happen inside the transmission. we will be working with the engineers next week on what they suggest. i would however plan this this process may take a month, give or take

depending on parts availability too"

I did do a tranmssion fluid drain and fill at 30-32K. I keep pretty good records and noted "Used (reccomended spec fluid, please post what that is for me). Lots of metal shavings on magnetic drain plug." I generally think first fluid change shavings are not necessarily an issue, but maybe that was wrong. Doubt Jeep would have cared and probably would have accused me of some ridiculuous bs for wrenching on my own property if I had told them of this concern though.

Since that fluid swap I had the truck in for a general inspection at 35K, which found a leaking valve cover gasket. My local dealer tried to forward me to the finance dept and claim they don't cover valve covers (sign of Jeep things to come). Eventually booked an appt online without talking to anyone and the mechanics found both Variable Valve Lift solenoid seals leaking. The point I'm trying to make is multiple independent mechanics, including Jeep's own, looked at the Jeep in the lask 1K miles.

Wondering whay you guys think? Did I kill the tranny? Did my friend somehow do that? Should I walk into that dealer and demand to see an order of a factory replacement and tow away if not?

Sponsored

 

[Escape.idiocracy]

I’d let them worry about testing the fluid. If you have records you have records… if they are already being crappy, ask for the regional representative and get ahold of Jeep cares to document the crap service that’s already started.
I would provide as few of details as possible. My friend drove, I turn my own wrenches, etc. let them ask the specifics…. The rest is speculation.

 

[NachoRuby]

3rd gear can go highway speeds, but 2nd is geared pretty typical compared to most vehicles. Since you're on 33s, it would redline at 63, but I don't think you'd want to downshift to it at that speed. It's all speculation at this point, unless it failed in such a way that it's recorded on the black box. There have been a few clutch failures, but not many all out transmission failures. Unless your friend did something really dumb, and it's recorded on the box, it should be covered under warranty. You're well under 60000 miles and 5 years. Go somewhere else.

The correct transmission fluid is Mopar ATF+4 (an automatic transmission fluid). Out of curiosity, what led you to change transmission fluid at only 32000? Were you already having issues, and did you document them? If so, that should help your case.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Winding it up tight, thinking you are hitting the next gear up but instead drop a gear? Yeah, that can bust things. (I learned that as a teen, it cost me a transmission)
So yes, that sort of a mistake can break transmissions, it's incredible torque involved.
But the fact is, it broke, and it's a drivetrain part. Yes, you can abuse transmissions, rip synchronizers apart and that sort of thing by doing dumb things, or showing off, or being unfamiliar with how to shift, but unless they can point to it being that sort of thing - they are supposed to fix it.

In short - you asked - yeah, if he wound it up and was flying high on the highway and dropped a gear back at high speed, he could have grenaded it.
All that I can say is that it's possible. Not saying he did. You asked if it was possible - yes.

But don't they have to prove it was abuse?
As long as you used a good fluid that meets the spec of the modern manual transmission, you did no damage there. And yes, there will be metallic dark powder on a magnetic drain plug. That's normal from the gears breaking in, being smoothed and burnished.

It's all speculation at this point,

Yeah, what he said.

 

[NachoRuby]

Winding it up tight, thinking you are hitting the next gear up but instead drop a gear? Yeah, that can bust things. (I learned that as a teen, it cost me a transmission)
So yes, that sort of a mistake can break transmissions, it's incredible torque involved.

Yeah, if you drop to 2nd at too high of a speed, it'll grenade even if you don't take your foot off the clutch (quite literally), and in an instant. Who knows what happened, but that's why there are very few people I let drive my MT vehicles without my direct supervision.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Yeah, if you drop to 2nd at too high of a speed, it'll grenade even if you don't take your foot off the clutch (quite literally), and in an instant. Who knows what happened, but that's why there are very few people I let drive my MT vehicles without my direct supervision.

What happens is it's like throwing an automatic into park on the highway. At least in that case the pawl may coast over the cog and not catch until your speed drops.
You are doing the same thing with the manual - like trying to lock up the rear wheels with the transmission gears.
I had to laugh years ago when my son and his wife were moving and he asked if they could borrow my truck back then. She's maybe 5'4" and 120 pounds soaking wet. She gets in the truck and I give my son this look.......... and he explains to me that years ago she drove trucks in Korea. She handled tha thing like she had owned it for years.

 

[Escape.idiocracy]

3rd gear can go highway speeds, but 2nd is geared pretty typical compared to most vehicles. Since you're on 33s, it would redline at 63, but I don't think you'd want to downshift to it at that speed. It's all speculation at this point, unless it failed in such a way that it's recorded on the black box. There have been a few clutch failures, but not many all out transmission failures. Unless your friend did something really dumb, and it's recorded on the box, it should be covered under warranty. You're well under 60000 miles and 5 years. Go somewhere else.

The correct transmission fluid is Mopar ATF+4 (an automatic transmission fluid). Out of curiosity, what led you to change transmission fluid at only 32000? Were you already having issues, and did you document them? If so, that should help your case.

I don’t know if the JK/JL-JT manual trans is the same….. but the JK 6spd I changed between 20-30k miles to amsoil synchromesh….. best thing I ever did…. 2nd and 3rd used to be sloppy until I changed up.

 

[Rusty PW]

Someone else on here broke a manual a few months ago. Remember it did the same thing. Broke into two. If OP used gear lube instead of ATF. He's SOL. It's coming out of his pocket.

I've broken trannies do hole shots. Never down shifting. I've lost a motor down shifting from going 4th to 2nd. Big block Pontiac's DON'T like 6,000+ rpms.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I don’t know if the JK/JL-JT manual trans is the same….. but the JK 6spd I changed between 20-30k miles to amsoil synchromesh….. best thing I ever did…. 2nd and 3rd used to be sloppy until I changed up.

I've started using Pennzoil Synchromesh fluid in my manual transmissions. It meets AMC, Chrysler and other specs and resolved any and all issues with T5 and T4 transmissions I've worked on.
Years ago Jeep and AMC went back and forth trying different fluids - gear lube, ATF, everything except the oil from McDonald's fries, and they had trouble. Then a new fluid was developed, a new spec came out and to this day, Chrysler recognizes that spec for certain transmissions.

If OP used gear lube instead of ATF. He's SOL. It's coming out of his pocket.

I haven't seen "gear lube" used in a manual transmission since the old Muncie M20 or the B/W T10 and T15 and so on.
It's waay too "thick" for modern transmissions in winter temperatures. Shifting is difficult and synchronizers don't work well - you may as well have peanut butter in there at 0 degrees.

ATF+4 is synthetic and since that's what they call for, that's what I'd use on these as the transmissions in the last few decades just won't tolerate heavy lube. It doesn't play well with the thrust bearings and synchros.
Even in the 80s, and 90s gear lube was problematic for a lot of transmissions.

 

[Rusty PW]

I've started using Pennzoil Synchromesh fluid in my manual transmissions. It meets AMC, Chrysler and other specs and resolved any and all issues with T5 and T4 transmissions I've worked on.
Years ago Jeep and AMC went back and forth trying different fluids - gear lube, ATF, everything except the oil from McDonald's fries, and they had trouble. Then a new fluid was developed, a new spec came out and to this day, Chrysler recognizes that spec for certain transmissions.



I haven't seen "gear lube" used in a manual transmission since the old Muncie M20 or the B/W T10 and T15 and so on.
It's waay too "thick" for modern transmissions in winter temperatures. Shifting is difficult and synchronizers don't work well - you may as well have peanut butter in there at 0 degrees.

ATF+4 is synthetic and since that's what they call for, that's what I'd use on these as the transmissions in the last few decades just won't tolerate heavy lube. It doesn't play well with the thrust bearings and synchros.
Even in the 80s, and 90s gear lube was problematic for a lot of transmissions.

On the DodgeTalk forum. Guys with trucks with the G56 trannies. Some have switch from the ATF to regular gear lube. My Nismo takes 75w85 GL4 as with most other Nissan manual transmissions.

 

[Deleted member 39643]

3rd gear can go highway speeds, but 2nd is geared pretty typical compared to most vehicles. Since you're on 33s, it would redline at 63, but I don't think you'd want to downshift to it at that speed. It's all speculation at this point, unless it failed in such a way that it's recorded on the black box. There have been a few clutch failures, but not many all out transmission failures. Unless your friend did something really dumb, and it's recorded on the box, it should be covered under warranty. You're well under 60000 miles and 5 years. Go somewhere else.

The correct transmission fluid is Mopar ATF+4 (an automatic transmission fluid). Out of curiosity, what led you to change transmission fluid at only 32000? Were you already having issues, and did you document them? If so, that should help your case.

That is the fluid I used, always think it is strange when they ask for ATF in a manual. 30k is actually reccomended for more intense use from the owners manual, plus I like change it early in the hope that the syncros last longer.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

That is the fluid I used, always think it is strange when they ask for ATF in a manual. 30k is actually reccomended for more intense use from the manual, plus I like change it early in the hope that the syncros last longer.

And you got the stuff out of there from wearing in, smoothing and burnishing the gears which happens naturally.

 

[Deleted member 39643]

Someone else on here broke a manual a few months ago. Remember it did the same thing. Broke into two. If OP used gear lube instead of ATF. He's SOL. It's coming out of his pocket.

I've broken trannies do hole shots. Never down shifting. I've lost a motor down shifting from going 4th to 2nd. Big block Pontiac's DON'T like 6,000+ rpms.

Here is the pic they sent me today after two weeks, sure looks broke in two. Let me know OP of that thread this may worth investigating. Service rep returned my call today, I don't remeber much else than being mad and them saying that the clutch may have exploded causing the transmission to explode. Clutch isn't covered under warranty so they are trying to pin everything on me. When the tranny broke open it caused damage to fuel lines and the heater core aparently. They aren't sure about the drivability or engine condition until the tranny repaired.

 

[Sandevino]

Of all the clutches I’ve abused over the years, I’ve never managed to split the case open.

Something doesn’t add up.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Of all the clutches I’ve abused over the years, I’ve never managed to split the case open.

Something doesn’t add up.

Agreed. I've seen clutches and flywheels explode on the track - they lose a bell housing, maybe rip the floor up, but the transmission would survive.
Can't see how an exploding clutch can take out a transmission.

Sponsored