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MojaveBert

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I went from a JL to a gen 3 raptor, to a TRX and then back to a gladiator. It’s honestly taken a little bit of time getting used to how cramped it is in a gladiator vs a full size but it was a downgrade I was willing to make. The raptor was a total lemon, or maybe all fords are just problem magnets. I literally have a list of all the issues I had with the thing. Clunking shocks, rattling door panels and seats, and a bunch more. Worst problem was ford service centers were always a pita to deal with. Many issues they wouldn’t want to tackle and would only service issues that were documented TSBs. When I got my leaking exhaust fixed they first suggested filling the hole with a sheet metal screw and some sealant.…. I ended up taking a decent loss on that thing but I hated driving it. If it was without issues as you would expect for a 1 year old truck I would have still been driving it, but when the CEO of ford is admitting they have quality control issues …

TRX I loved, powerful, huge, comfortable. Literally zero compromises. I got mine for a decent price because it had 23k miles on it and was a ram “fast feedback” vehicle owned by ram prior to me. I still miss that vehicle but obviously I ended up getting out of it. the fuel economy was absolutely brutal (not to mention Illinois premium gas prices) and it just felt wrong daily driving such an expensive Vehicle. Theft rates are sky high on it and every morning leaving for work it would wake up my kids even if it was already outside lol.

I decided to move back to Jeep because I got a ton of money deposited into my bank, got a basically new Jeep (5k miles on a 22) and I get to come back to the Jeep community that is second to none. Theres certainly a slight superiority complex on the raptor community that you notice right away, especially if you bring up TRXs lol.

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Zybane

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So a bit late to this as I haven't been on here in awhile.

I did go back to a Raptor. Was lucky to score a 2021 Gen 3 Raptor and not pay some insane ADM. I traded the Gladiator in on the Gen 3 back in October. I was not destined for the Jeep life.

As much as I liked top off/doors off, I just didn't do it regularly enough, with a 3 yo and a busy schedule its just much easier getting in and going. The garage space was dedicated to the fun car, so having the truck sit outside everywhere it was a constant on/off/on. The raptor is more my speed. Jeeps are cool, but just not for me.

-Chris
I'm checking out a '23 Raptor today at my local dealership to see what all the fuss is about. I love my JTRD, but it does have some big negatives. I've been reading articles that diesel will stay much more expensive than gas as a new normal due to permanent moves by the US refining industry.

The Gladiator seats are terrible, interior is quite small, the wind noise, wandering/constant attention needed on the highway, rough ride etc.

We all know the positives of the Gladiator, so I'll most likely keep it but I like to keep my options open.
 

MojaveBert

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I'm checking out a '23 Raptor today at my local dealership to see what all the fuss is about. I love my JTRD, but it does have some big negatives. I've been reading articles that diesel will stay much more expensive than gas as a new normal due to permanent moves by the US refining industry.

The Gladiator seats are terrible, interior is quite small, the wind noise, wandering/constant attention needed on the highway, rough ride etc.

We all know the positives of the Gladiator, so I'll most likely keep it but I like to keep my options open.
If you can find one for sticker new, you’re winning. Then hopefully you find one without issues. Just keep an eye on the fordraptorforums and see what they’re saying. It is incredibly hard to find A 37PP on its own let alone anywhere near sticker even used.
 

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Worst problem was ford service centers were always a pita to deal with. Many issues they wouldn’t want to tackle and would only service issues that were documented TSBs. When I got my leaking exhaust fixed they first suggested filling the hole with a sheet metal screw and some sealant.….
You've got to be kidding!?!?
If it was a pipe, why not weld or braze it? A screw and some sealant? That's asking for more trouble.

I've been reading articles that diesel will stay much more expensive than gas as a new normal due to permanent moves by the US refining industry.
Try blaming the newer standards for sulfur and emissions...... it's not the fault of the refiners they are forced to do more, deeper refining at much greater expense to reach the limits of the law.

wandering/constant attention needed on the highway, rough ride etc.
That's not typical. Mine handles so well I was shocked as hell when my wife ended up trading her comfortable, tight, quiet and luxurious Grand Cherokee for a Wrangler Rubicon. Why? She had experience driving my Gladiators and thought they handled just fine. No wander, no problems with steering or handling on the road. She drove my 2022 JT from St. Augustine, FL almost to IA before I took over again. She drove my 2020 JT from Colorado Springs back to IA a couple of years ago. Never fatigued, never complained. And she's used to rack and pinion steering and the comfort of a GC.
Riding back in her new JLU Rubicon, I have to admit- the ride was almost as good as her GC was, in fact in some ways, just as good. Wind noise is an issue - it's louder on a windy day, but on a calm day, it is actually fine. The tires - KO2 A/Ts were quiet, smooth, comfortable.
I was so impressed, I'm actually now envious of my wife's Jeep.
Both my my JTs and her Wrangler - smooth on the road, good on RR tracks, handle and drive fine, no constant correction at all. (well, the 2020, my first Gladiator, needed the steering gear changed under the TSB)
Wandering, rough ride - if it's stock, it's not "a Jeep thing". Not these days. They sell these things to doctors, lawyers, CEOs, managers, parents running their kids around, you name it.
 

MojaveBert

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You've got to be kidding!?!?
If it was a pipe, why not weld or braze it? A screw and some sealant? That's asking for more trouble.


Try blaming the newer standards for sulfur and emissions...... it's not the fault of the refiners they are forced to do more, deeper refining at much greater expense to reach the limits of the law.


That's not typical. Mine handles so well I was shocked as hell when my wife ended up trading her comfortable, tight, quiet and luxurious Grand Cherokee for a Wrangler Rubicon. Why? She had experience driving my Gladiators and thought they handled just fine. No wander, no problems with steering or handling on the road. She drove my 2022 JT from St. Augustine, FL almost to IA before I took over again. She drove my 2020 JT from Colorado Springs back to IA a couple of years ago. Never fatigued, never complained. And she's used to rack and pinion steering and the comfort of a GC.
Riding back in her new JLU Rubicon, I have to admit- the ride was almost as good as her GC was, in fact in some ways, just as good. Wind noise is an issue - it's louder on a windy day, but on a calm day, it is actually fine. The tires - KO2 A/Ts were quiet, smooth, comfortable.
I was so impressed, I'm actually now envious of my wife's Jeep.
Both my my JTs and her Wrangler - smooth on the road, good on RR tracks, handle and drive fine, no constant correction at all. (well, the 2020, my first Gladiator, needed the steering gear changed under the TSB)
Wandering, rough ride - if it's stock, it's not "a Jeep thing". Not these days. They sell these things to doctors, lawyers, CEOs, managers, parents running their kids around, you name it.

Nope. I told them “this is an 80,000 dollar truck with a warranty, no.” They got all pissy saying “well you’re the customer if that’s what makes you happy then fine,” but they did it. Very condescending. It was an alignment tab on the exhaust. It was just flat out missing so it was just a perfect hole in the piping. Because of the location a weld was a pita so they didn’t want to do that, and the service manager was worried about future warrantability doing that (but not the sheet metal screw idea).
 

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MojaveBert

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I'm checking out a '23 Raptor today at my local dealership to see what all the fuss is about. I love my JTRD, but it does have some big negatives. I've been reading articles that diesel will stay much more expensive than gas as a new normal due to permanent moves by the US refining industry.

The Gladiator seats are terrible, interior is quite small, the wind noise, wandering/constant attention needed on the highway, rough ride etc.

We all know the positives of the Gladiator, so I'll most likely keep it but I like to keep my options open.
Id like to think youre going to benefit from a bump in resale value when they get rid of the diesel this year.
 

BearFootSam

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That's one thing I'll miss is the power seats with memory. My wife runs a seat up clean to the front and moves the back so you sit upright as if in an old oak chair or church pew or something. I can't even get into her Grand Cherokee without moving the seat back then I have to tilt the back of the seat back a bit or I feel like someone is shoving me forward. So when she drive my truck (and she LOVES driving that Silverado) we each have a seat, mirror and pedal memory set. I rarely driver her Grand Cherokee so I didn't bother setting up the seat memory for me - she just pushes 1 after I've been in it.
I have raynauds pretty bad and have had finger and hand injuries over the years so needed the heated wheel - that's something my Chevy was a year or two too early to have. That was a must for the Gladiator.
Man, that heated steering wheel was a treat. From old cold injuries to my hands, at certain temps they feel like I've smashed them with a hammer. We were camping in the Flathead national forest and after packing up the RTT when it was 20* I was in agony. A heated steering wheel would have been priceless.
 

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If you can find one for sticker new, you’re winning. Then hopefully you find one without issues. Just keep an eye on the fordraptorforums and see what they’re saying. It is incredibly hard to find A 37PP on its own let alone anywhere near sticker even used.
So I drove the 37PP Raptor today, it was pretty amazing. First thing I noticed were the seats. Oh my lord, they are so comfortable. The Gladiator seats feel like they are from a farm tractor compared.

And that smoooooth ride. At 70 MPH it was so quiet. Surprisingly the truck didn't feel that much quicker than my tuned diesel. Just because my diesel has so much low down torque. But speed is one of the last things I'm interested in with a truck.

The interior space boost was super nice, it feels like it's about 30% larger inside than the Gladiator. One thing I did notice is the Raptor hood and seating position, it is quite hard to tell how far your right fender is away from something. Luckily it has the tech pack with all the 360 deg cameras and whiz bang stuff I wish my Gladiator had.

The 37" Raptor bead-lock wheels are AMAZING. Among some of the best wheel designs I've ever seen.

All the little stuff added up; the ventilated seats, the table platform in the center console, the lack of wind noise, the adaptive cruise WITH lane centering which is SUPER sweet for road trips.

I'd have to figure out how to put a winch on the front though. This particular Raptor also had the front Torsen differential, which is a must for me. All the other three Raptors on the lots don't have that or the 37PP. Although it did not have the 2kW power pack, which is a disappointment.

MSRP $85K and they want $10K dealer markup. Which they said they would give me a $1,500 "discount" on, as long as I purchased by Saturday. ROFL!

They said the 37PP package is hard to find.

I'd never pay that silly markup, especially on an economy/market that is dropping fast and with these sky high interest rates.

But thinking more long term if I could get a Raptor for MSRP, I am actually considering it. I'm surprised by the level of refinement for $85K. my JTRD MSRP was $70K. Having driven both, I think you actually get more truck for the money with the Raptor if at MSRP.
 

MojaveBert

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So I drove the 37PP Raptor today, it was pretty amazing. First thing I noticed were the seats. Oh my lord, they are so comfortable. The Gladiator seats feel like they are from a farm tractor compared.

And that smoooooth ride. At 70 MPH it was so quiet. Surprisingly the truck didn't feel that much quicker than my tuned diesel. Just because my diesel has so much low down torque. But speed is one of the last things I'm interested in with a truck.

The interior space boost was super nice, it feels like it's about 30% larger inside than the Gladiator. One thing I did notice is the Raptor hood and seating position, it is quite hard to tell how far your right fender is away from something. Luckily it has the tech pack with all the 360 deg cameras and whiz bang stuff I wish my Gladiator had.

The 37" Raptor bead-lock wheels are AMAZING. Among some of the best wheel designs I've ever seen.

All the little stuff added up; the ventilated seats, the table platform in the center console, the lack of wind noise, the adaptive cruise WITH lane centering which is SUPER sweet for road trips.

I'd have to figure out how to put a winch on the front though. This particular Raptor also had the front Torsen differential, which is a must for me. All the other three Raptors on the lots don't have that or the 37PP. Although it did not have the 2kW power pack, which is a disappointment.

MSRP $85K and they want $10K dealer markup. Which they said they would give me a $1,500 "discount" on, as long as I purchased by Saturday. ROFL!

They said the 37PP package is hard to find.

I'd never pay that silly markup, especially on an economy/market that is dropping fast and with these sky high interest rates.

But thinking more long term if I could get a Raptor for MSRP, I am actually considering it. I'm surprised by the level of refinement for $85K. my JTRD MSRP was $70K. Having driven both, I think you actually get more truck for the money with the Raptor if at MSRP.
It’s a great vehicle if it doesn’t crop up with issues, I loved mine outside of them. Finding a 37PP for sticker will be a challenge though. I’ve seen dealers asking for 25 over sticker on them and there’s currently a raptor r on eBay going for 186,000$. Inanity. You will never get that ADM money back. I just did a build with everything I’d want a 23’ with 37s and recaro seats came out to 92😳

Also you CAN run regular in the raptor but it idles like garbage. You can feel the engine studder at a stop light. I’d recommend premium only if you got it.
 

JRODZ

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I came from a 20 Silverado Trail Boss LT, that was a lemon. I've had numerous Silverado's b4 that one too. I miss the interior room/space. Other than that the Willys can do what I need. I've had Wranglers in the past too, I've always liked Jeeps. But this one I've done the most work to. To me, the best part is not seeing yourself at every light or place I stop while out. The best part of owning a Jeep is makin it your own, how you want to. Everyone says nice Jeep. A Wrangler, & now Gladiator, can never go outta style. Its timeless a American recognized vehicle. Go anywhere, anytime, thru anything truck.
 

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Zybane

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It’s a great vehicle if it doesn’t crop up with issues, I loved mine outside of them. Finding a 37PP for sticker will be a challenge though. I’ve seen dealers asking for 25 over sticker on them and there’s currently a raptor r on eBay going for 186,000$. Inanity. You will never get that ADM money back. I just did a build with everything I’d want a 23’ with 37s and recaro seats came out to 92😳

Also you CAN run regular in the raptor but it idles like garbage. You can feel the engine studder at a stop light. I’d recommend premium only if you got it.
I'm just afraid it is going to be too wide for a LOT of trails.
 

MojaveBert

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It’s a great vehicle if it doesn’t crop up with issues, I loved mine outside of them. Finding a 37PP for sticker will be a challenge though. I’ve seen dealers asking for 25 over sticker on them and there’s currently a raptor r on eBay going for 186,000$. Inanity. You will never get that ADM money back.
I'm just afraid it is going to be too wide for a LOT of trails.
I believe they’re around 85-86” wide? Also 231 long. They’re big but that makes a lot of room inside too.
 

Zybane

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I believe they’re around 85-86” wide? Also 231 long. They’re big but that makes a lot of room inside too.
I switched over to the dark side and got a 37PP Raptor in Azure Grey for $5K ADM. I think it's because I'm getting older and prefer comfort more; was willing to trade off the JTRD rough edges.

Way more comfortable seats in the Rapor, ventilated, a lot more room for the dogs inside, super comfortable ride is amazing, even has adaptive cruise with lane centering so driving to trails is a super breeze versus Gladiator gotta be on top of it 24/7, especially if there's a crosswind. And much less noise, don't have to wear earplugs for long trips like when going 70+ in the Gladiator lol.

Can still do 95% of the trails I'd do with my Gladiator. Gonna miss the tops off/doors off capability, but the opening panoramic roof in the Ford is a decent second place.
 

MojaveBert

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I switched over to the dark side and got a 37PP Raptor in Azure Grey for $5K ADM. I think it's because I'm getting older and prefer comfort more; was willing to trade off the JTRD rough edges.

Way more comfortable seats in the Rapor, ventilated, a lot more room for the dogs inside, super comfortable ride is amazing, even has adaptive cruise with lane centering so driving to trails is a super breeze versus Gladiator gotta be on top of it 24/7, especially if there's a crosswind. And much less noise, don't have to wear earplugs for long trips like when going 70+ in the Gladiator lol.

Can still do 95% of the trails I'd do with my Gladiator. Gonna miss the tops off/doors off capability, but the opening panoramic roof in the Ford is a decent second place.
Nice! 5k ADM isn’t bad. Guessing you were around 90-95 grand? How’s your mpg with the factory 37s?
 

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Nice! 5k ADM isn’t bad. Guessing you were around 90-95 grand? How’s your mpg with the factory 37s?
Ya, $93K. I'm getting mixed 15 MPG in the Raptor vs 21 mixed in the JTRD. With how much more expensive diesel is vs 91 Octane, it's about the same fuel cost overall.
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