Beat to death alignment talk.

[TB355]

2022 Gladiator Rubicon
Mopar 2” with 1” spacer front bumper and winch.
Rancho Geometry Bracket
Metalcloak Front Track Bar.

recently installed the Geometry brackets for LCA levels so went to have alignment check. Attached is the alignment screen which I questioned the Toe and the Camber and the shop said “in spec” no need to adjust. I stated they were off and they disagreed.

I will not use shop again but any advice on numbers?

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[smlobx]

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[ShadowsPapa]

2022 Gladiator Rubicon
Mopar 2” with 1” spacer fro bumper and winch.
Rancho Geometry Bracket
Metalcloak Front Track Bar.

recently installed the Geometry brackets for LCA levels so went to have alignment check. Attached is the alignment screen which I question the Toe and the Camber and the shop said “in spec” no need to adjust. I stated they were off and they disagreed.

I will not use shop again but any advice on numbers?

Watch caster - high caster can cause caster wobble - about like DW.
I know people advocate that "more is always better" but that's not a fact, just the popular belief of the Jeep crowd. I can point to a number of pros who say no, and to sites that specifically talk about introducing wobble, or when combined with other elements being off, other issues.

Camber is off - but you don't see many shops dealing with it because it requires specific parts, and the taking apart of the steering knuckle and ball joint connection to replace sleeves.
Camber is I believe -3/4 to + 1/4 spec (some Rubicon specs say .1 to -.6) You are a full degree off and then some. Cross camber is way off.

Toe is way off as well.

My first questions would be - how does it handle? Does is pull? Wander? Tire wear?

 

[TB355]

Watch caster - high caster can cause caster wobble - about like DW.
I know people advocate that "more is always better" but that's not a fact, just the popular belief of the Jeep crowd. I can point to a number of pros who say no, and to sites that specifically talk about introducing wobble, or when combined with other elements being off, other issues.

Camber is off - but you don't see many shops dealing with it because it requires specific parts, and the taking apart of the steering knuckle and ball joint connection to replace sleeves.
Camber is I believe -3/4 to + 1/4 spec (some Rubicon specs say .1 to -.6) You are a full degree off and then some. Cross camber is way off.

Toe is way off as well.

My first questions would be - how does it handle? Does is pull? Wander? Tire wear?

Truck drives fine. I through on the Geometry brackets with the Mopar "ext" LCA so checked to have numbers to see if I need to throw on the stock LCA.

Truck has 6800 miles on it, and tires have no signs of wear. How would the Camber be off that much with a basically brand new truck?

 

[Lunentucker]

Caster isn't going to hurt anything at 6.7.
Camber cannot be easily adjusted. Certainly not while on the machine. Parts needed.
Toe you can easily adjust yourself, and contrary to most conventional Internet lore, a slight bit of toe out reduces the likelihood of death wobble, and no adverse costs.
Here's a way to set toe with no lift, jack, or helper. Tires and wheels on.
https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/going-digital-on-toe-settings.66231/

Which Geo brackets?
How much lift and what kind?
I'd leave the brackets and the arms as they are. you're not likely to experience anything but better handling until you get above 7.5 on caster.

I run about 7.0 and the thing drives perfectly. Wind, water, crap roads - no effect.

Lots of information via the links in this thread on "death wobble".
Spend some time and digest.

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...-wobble-shimmy-wander-drift-bump-steer.68302/

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I'd leave the brackets and the arms as they are. you're not likely to experience anything but better handling until you get above 7.5 on caster.

That depends fully on the truck. You'll find plenty out there who have issues.
It's not a "this WILL hurt" or "This will NOT hurt" type of thing.
Too many variables. Yours is fine and yet others introduce issues above about 6.5
But that's why I asked how it was doing - how it drove, etc.
Sounds like unless he sees tire wear or has under-steer, over-steer, or handling problems, leave it.
If it's fine, then it's fine and there's no use worrying unless he has issues or abnormal wear.

Toe specs actually do out outside of in a bit in the range. Only a problem if it's feathering tires.

 

[TB355]

Caster isn't going to hurt anything at 6.7.
Camber cannot be easily adjusted. Certainly not while on the machine. Parts needed.
Toe you can easily adjust yourself, and contrary to most conventional Internet lore, a slight bit of toe out reduces the likelihood of death wobble, and no adverse costs.
Here's a way to set toe with no lift, jack, or helper. Tires and wheels on.
https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/going-digital-on-toe-settings.66231/

Which Geo brackets?
How much lift and what kind?
I'd leave the brackets and the arms as they are. you're not likely to experience anything but better handling until you get above 7.5 on caster.

I run about 7.0 and the thing drives perfectly. Wind, water, crap roads - no effect.

Lots of information via the links in this thread on "death wobble".
Spend some time and digest.

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...-wobble-shimmy-wander-drift-bump-steer.68302/

All above,

but Mopar 2” on Rubicon, 1” spacer for winch and bumper and Rancho on the top (2” hole)
I did do a slight toe adjust when I got home and drove today about 100 miles in wind and def felt worse than before geometry (which it never drove awful, but did brackets to help with harsh bump hits)
This afternoon I threw on the factory lowers vs the Mopar “ext” and it definitely feels better.

I somewhat feel that the alignment shop I’ve always used had a new kid working and wondering if he set up the machine or wheel alignment tool crooked.

I did a “camber check” by using straight edge on tires and used a digital level and both sitting close to the same vs the 1 positive and 1 negative.

bad thing is the other 2 alignment options are booked until next Wednesday for me to confirm this.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

All above,

but Mopar 2” on Rubicon, 1” spacer for winch and bumper and Rancho on the top (2” hole)
I did do a slight toe adjust when I got home and drove today about 100 miles in wind and def felt worse than before geometry (which it never drove awful, but did brackets to help with harsh bump hits)
This afternoon I threw on the factory lowers vs the Mopar “ext” and it definitely feels better.

I somewhat feel that the alignment shop I’ve always used had a new kid working and wondering if he set up the machine or wheel alignment tool crooked.

I did a “camber check” by using straight edge on tires and used a digital level and both sitting close to the same vs the 1 positive and 1 negative.

bad thing is the other 2 alignment options are booked until next Wednesday for me to confirm this.

Very possible he had the machine off by a bit. It's really easy to do. I've operated several types myself, Bear was among them and if you didn't get the rig exactly set your results would be off (I worked through automotive college doing alignments and brake work years ago)
The camber on yours was off enough I'd have expected slight issues, again, why I asked how it was doing/driving/handling.
With things off like that I'd really expect some weird pattern on the outer ring of tread, or uneven wear I won't get into here.
That many miles should show problems on the tires if it was truly off.

 

[TB355]

Very possible he had the machine off by a bit. It's really easy to do. I've operated several types myself, Bear was among them and if you didn't get the rig exactly set your results would be off (I worked through automotive college doing alignments and brake work years ago)
The camber on yours was off enough I'd have expected slight issues, again, why I asked how it was doing/driving/handling.
With things off like that I'd really expect some weird pattern on the outer ring of tread, or uneven wear I won't get into here.
That many miles should show problems on the tires if it was truly off.

i agree which is why I’m slightly less worried, after seeing the numbers they showed me I freaked and “started thinking it drove worse”.

still going to get it check out next week when I can get an appointment to verify, but as of right now the tires still look good so fingers crossed.

thanks all who jumped in.

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