Trail map to a worthy successor for my truck.

[homerun]

If that's your main concern, you will be well off. The Manual does better in offroad handling than the automatic stats wise (higher crawl ratio). It has hill start assist also meaning it wont roll back if your slow with the clutch. I believe that is a standard option on the manual.

I agree with everything here.

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[ACAD_Cowboy]

I just looked at the video that @ACAD_Cowboy posted again, and I think the only reason I would have to go with a locker that's more heavy duty than the electronic type is if I were to make the truck capable of accepting a snowplow and get some extra paid work done with it that way in the winter.

I plow with my rubicon with a western HTS 7’6”, not a home owner super light plow. Lockers are helpful but not the silver bullet for plowing. The Dana lockers are plenty strong, they are merely actuated via electronics as opposed to air or physical cable.

For plowing I’ve found that other than initial trail breaking they hurt more then help if you are down to surface, bucking and snorting and making nimble turns impossible.

If I had “lesser” axles either the arb for ease of use or the Ox for brute simplicity would be my options. LSD like the quaife are neat for the track but not my thing on the trail. Too much shock load and unload.

 

[Elanachan]

@ACAD_Cowboy If I went with lockers more heavy duty than what comes on the stock rubicon, it might be the cable type, I'm just not sure how necessary it would be if I'm pushing a plow through wet and heavy sierra snow.

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

@ACAD_Cowboy If I went with lockers more heavy duty than what comes on the stock rubicon, it might be the cable type, I'm just not sure how necessary it would be if I'm pushing a plow through wet and heavy sierra snow.

https://www.4wd.com/sku/Eaton/standard/ct_128304.pdf

There is only so much room to fit the locking mechanicals, thus the locking member cross section can only be so large and thus it will only be able to contain so much force. The big killer of lockers is shock load: wheel spin coming to a sudden and violent stop with 100% traction. Sometimes you need a given amount of wheel speed or “rim speed” in engineering speak, to shed mud or maintain forward momentum etc but if your transition from churning mud to maximum dry traction is very abrupt you will destroy the locker and it serves as the fusible link that protects the axle as a whole.

“Stronger” lockers require bigger diffs like Dana 60’s which I think are well beyond typical needs.

I plow like a real big boy plow, I wheel with unimogs and I’ve never felt my lockers were deficient.

If it helps mopar shows a harness to allow the retrofitting of Eaton locker in the d44 housing. You could always back fit factory bits.

 

[Elanachan]

Do you think just using the rubicon's stock lockers would be sufficient for this kind of application, given the size of the vehicle?

 

[Elanachan]

I'm looking at my current finances, and I'm realizing that unless I can find better employment soon, it could take me quite a while to save up for it. What would the consensus be on getting a Sport or Sport S, knowing that the difference in price could mean I'm in my gladiator several years earlier than if I saved up for the rubicon, with the idea that I'd install things like the lockers aftermarket?

 

[Ichthus]

I'm looking at my current finances, and I'm realizing that unless I can find better employment soon, it could take me quite a while to save up for it. What would the consensus be on getting a Sport or Sport S, knowing that the difference in price could mean I'm in my gladiator several years earlier than if I saved up for the rubicon, with the idea that I'd install things like the lockers aftermarket?

Regarding seat covers: Bartact is just about the only option you need to consider. Cheaper than leather, water proof, don’t fade like neoprene, breathe better than neoprene. You can clean these things with a wire brush...they’re THAT durable. Yes, I’ve done it. Not to mention using every chemical cleaner and degreaser in my garage, and a deep freeze. After all that and 6 years of hard use, you’d believe me if I told you they were a few weeks old. And can you imagine how Happy I am that the bubble gum wasn’t tracked through the factory cloth seats by my 2 year old?

Save money, don’t bother with the dual top group. Maybe the cheapest long-term option is to get a hard top and wait for used soft tops to hit the market.

Regarding the manual or auto: find a dealer that will let you take a manual for a weekend test drive. Obviously, it’ll have to be a used Wrangler, but it’ll give you an idea of life with one. Personally, I would be bored out of my mind with an auto. The ONLY time I’ve ever wished for one was when backing my trailer up my steep driveway. Having the manual doesn’t phase me in rush hour traffic (and I’ve lived in Chicago with it) and I prefer the manual off-road. If you learn how to drive it and take advantage of its features, it’s not the clutch-riding nightmare people expect.

Sport or Rubi? I’m looking at about $48k msrp, or around $43k after discounts for a lightly optioned Rubi. A Sport S was only going to save me about $2k...and I can’t buy lockers, 33” MT’s, rock sliders, a steel rear bumper, 4.10 gears, high clearance fenders, etc for that money. That said, this will be my first Rubi...but my Sport JKU climbed an obstacle that a guy in a Rubi JKU in front of me winched up and the Rubi on 37’s behind me split a tire on. I would be surprised if a stock Sport wasn’t just as capable as your Frontier, in most cases...and where it isn’t, a winch can help. There are ways to winch when no tree or boulder is near (get a folding anchor)

 

[Elanachan]

@Ichthus here's a rundown of the MSRPs for the different trims/packages I would be considering:
*Sport: $41,755
A/T Tires
3 piece hard top
Tinting
Tonneau cover (might get aftermarket instead)
Spray-in bedliner, I looked at a couple that had this option and i think it will be decent for my needs
All-Weather Slush Mats, I have these in the frontier, they really do save on ease of cleaning
Max Tow Package, if the future is kind to me, I might one day use it for towing a trailer-able aircraft (see bellow)
AUX switches, just too many reasons to not get this
Traclok diff, comes with A/T tires
4.10 ratio, comes with max tow

*Sport S (1): $44,760
Same options as Sport, but with trail rails, I use these very frequently when hauling with the frontier, though it doesn't have the added D rings.

*Sport S (2): $52,555
Fully loaded, minus smoker's group and block heater

*Rubicon (1): $54,000
Trailcam
M/T Tires
3 piece hard top
Tonneau cover
Spray-in bedliner
8.4 inch display, comes with trailcam
Premium sound, comes with 8.4 inch display
All-Weather Slush Mats
Tow Package
LED Lights, comes with trailcam
AUX switches
Trail Rails
Automatic, for max towing capacity

*Rubicon (2): $59,910
Options NOT selected:
Winch-Capable Bumper (thinking about buying aftermarket)
Proximity keyless entry
Cloth Seats
7.0 inch screen
Wireless bluetooth speaker
Smoker's group
Manual, see above
Block heater

Reference to my mentioning trailerable aircraft:

 

[Ichthus]

If you could live with a Sport without the trail cam, do you need it in the Rubi?

That a Swiss plane? LSA? Looks like a lot of fun. Kinda doubt I could ever invest in something that couldn’t haul the family of four...so maybe a Cherokee 6 or C210...and those won’t trailer.

 

[Elanachan]

@Ichthus My rational for having the trailcam in the rubi is that, if i'm gona get a rubi, I wana have the cam too, as I definitely see the value of being able to look farther over the hood than I can with my own eyes, especially if there's no place for a spotter to get out and check.

The plane is a Glasair Sportsman, avalible as a kit for about $60k, the factory is near Seattle. That particular one just happens to belong to a swiss owner. Also, I do believe it qualifies as a GA aircraft, as it can be outfitted to be IFR ready.

 

[Ichthus]

@Ichthus My rational for having the trailcam in the rubi is that, if i'm gona get a rubi, I wana have the cam too, as I definitely see the value of being able to look farther over the hood than I can with my own eyes, especially if there's no place for a spotter to get out and check.

The plane is a Glasair Sportsman, avalible as a kit for about $60k, the factory is near Seattle. That particular one just happens to belong to a swiss owner. Also, I do believe it qualifies as a GA aircraft, as it can be outfitted to be IFR ready.

I’m so far removed from the world of small aircraft. Moved from instructing to corporate back in 2007, just as LSA’s became a thing...and I haven’t really kept up with all the new stuff out there. Got a buddy (former student) with an old 150, but we haven’t made time to take it up.

 

[Elanachan]

I’m so far removed from the world of small aircraft. Moved from instructing to corporate back in 2007, just as LSA’s became a thing...and I haven’t really kept up with all the new stuff out there. Got a buddy (former student) with an old 150, but we haven’t made time to take it up.

What I know is, the craft comes with full glass by default, requires only minor additions to be IFR ready, can hold up to 1000lbs (not including fuel), seat four people, and travel about 800nm before needing to refuel. Given that it's small enough to put on a trailer, and can be converted to a tail dragger or put on amphibious floats with very little conversion time, this little plane seems like a good economical choice for a recreational flyer. Part of the reason why I'm shooting high on the Gladiator by not picking the manual transmission is because I have no idea how much the combined weight of the aircraft and trailer would be. The craft is made out of composites instead of aluminum, so it should be lighter than say a cessna of a similar size.

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

Do you think just using the rubicon's stock lockers would be sufficient for this kind of application, given the size of the vehicle?

Everything I’ve gleened from the internet about blown lockers points to shock loading which is not a sign of weakness but driver error, it’ll kill something far more expensive if not the locker.

As for the dual top group, I’ve always thought it’s a waste of money because swapping is a chore and where do you put your hard top for extended periods? I went with a hard top because I’m a cave man and beat my chest screaming “hard top or no top!”. I recently invested in a bikini and have spent almost two weeks now with what amount to a sheet over me and no doors and have enjoyed it. It’s one of those I love I love open air driving but the wife not exactly so much. The boys love it but don’t understand that they will need sunblock and then fuss about it. The bikini solves most of the problems and gets me the flow through ventilation I want.

Point is I could solve this by just getting a soft top but they are not as simple to swap, cost more and then I have to find a place for the soft top when the hard top is on. I’d rather invest that worry in half doors.

As for a max tow versus rubi, honestly the only things you give up is the 4:1 transfer case, lockers and sway disconnect.

The lockers can be added with factory mopar bits and factory wire harness and the the sway disconnect can be as simple as wrenches and zip ties. The transfer case can be hunted up used as it should be the same unit from the JK so you could build towards the future. Stickers and stitching are cute but not a rubicon make. The red shocks are better but not best but how much of a difference would that make to you?

 

[Elanachan]

@ACAD_Cowboy I would be getting a rubicon for the added functionality if I got one, the cosmetic extras are just that, extra. I'm mostly interested in it's performance capability. Even my reasons for why I would consider the leather seats are utilitarian in nature: they're easier to clean than cloth, I could conceivably hose down the entire inside with those.

 

[Elanachan]

@Ichthus you might be interested to know that after doing some research, the weight of a fully-loaded (fuel, bagage, etc) Glasair Sportsman and an aluminum flatbed trailer to tow it around on is 3850lbs, so that would barely squeak by the towing capacity for the manual transmission for the Gladiator.

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